Trap bar deadlift, another chance?

[lohengramm14]

Hey Rip, hope you are doing well with all the pink people opression going on in the world these days. Recently I've been enjoying a lot of your radio talk and particularly the episode "Experts are the problem." Not many people are willing to speak up on that issue these days. The part about changing our views on certain subjects when we are wrong and how that has the potential to helps us better our selves and prctice our profession with more competence was intriguing. I thought I'd try to offer another perspective on this particular topic as I believe that you could revisit your stance on it.

To adress your arguments against it (Why the Trap Bar is Completely Useless with Mark Rippetoe - YouTube is the video that I'll be referring to):

Less stability in the sagittal plane
I agree, it has more sagittal plane movement than our barbell deadlift and that inherently makes it less safe. To what degree tho? I think that it's way less than you've emphasised in your video. If the trainee tightens his lats and braces the trunk hard (As everybody should during any compound exercise) trap bar won't move a whole lot. Evident also by the fact that you pushed the bar of your trainee in the video while he was holding it in his hands, and it didn't move a whole lot the first time. Only after he relaxed more has the bar moved noticably in the sagittal plane. Strongmen also do their farmer's carries in a very similar way in which the trap bar deadlift is executed and they even walk around while doing so and they seem to be fine. There's really no force that would push the trap bar in the sagittal plane anyways. Saying that it's unsafe, eh... I think it's over estimated. Using the bar myself, I haven't had this issue at all.

Hip Height
Trap bar deadlift alows us to set our hips literally anywhere in the starting position. Barbell deadlift, as everybody hopefully knows, does not. This is a double edged sword in which positives outweigh the negatives.
The Negatives Being
- Incosistent starting position. Sure, this can be a problem, more so than the sagittal plane instability, but it's importance is still probably over estimated. Just like any other variability in any other lift, with practice, focus and consistency we can memorize any desired hip height and repeatetly use it in training to get desired adaptations. But also, looking at the position of our knees in relation to our elbows is just an amazing deadlift tip (Useful for barbell deadlifts too) for finding the right hip height. (Or just checking if we're there) Knees too far in front of our elbows? Push the hips up. Knees too far behind our elbows? Push the hips down. How long would it take you to teach an average novice how to perform a barbell deadlift? 5 minutes? 10 if they are a little slow? Trap bar deadlift, in my experience, isn't much harder to teach at all.
The positives
Im an efficient bencher, my arms are quite short and my conventional deadlift is embarassing. (And im a lightweight powerlifter) Due to my short arms I'm very bent over in the conventional deadlift and every bit of extra leg drive helps a ton. I've used the trap bar for a couple of mesocycles in my own training now, and lowering my hips just a bit, we're talking and inch or two here has helped me a lot. (Difference being like 15 kilos at least in comparison to my barbell deadlift). Being a fat lard last year I could also avoid my pot belly getting in the way while setting up for the pull. It didn't beat up my back as much and I've been able to do more volume on it which has skyrocketed my previously stalled deadlift last year. All this because the trap bar allowed me to pull with a slightly more vertical back angle. I love it as an assistance exercise, the very least credit we have to give it is that it's not useless. (For anyone wondering - No, I could not have achieved the same effect using block pulls)
Anecdotally it has helped many people deadlift through back pain that was being aggravated during conventional dedlifts just because of this slight change in the back angle.

"If you want a more vertical back agnle, just high bar squat"
I don't really agree with this argument at all actually. If we imagine an arbitrary spectrum where on one side we have a front squat and on the other we have a conventional deadlift, I imagine that many lifts / lift variations exist in between those two, and they are sligtly different movement variations that bias our muscle mass in a slightly different way. Deadlift is called a deadlift because the lift starts from a dead stop, trap bar deadlift is due to this fact, no matter how we execute it still more similar to the barbell deadlift than it is to the barbell squat. [[Link removed. He can get his own clicks.]]

A hypothetical and a conclusion
Now imagine this Rip, some 20 year old kid approaches you and says - I want to get bigger and stronger but I just don't want to use a barbell for the squat and the deadlift. Instead I want to use a safety squat bar and a trap bar. Should I still train? Would you tell him - Just shut up and train, okay? And yes, you can do some curls too, because you were about to ask. Or would you tell him - No, trap bar is useless so you might as well not train at all. (I don't know your position on the safety squat bar so I wouldn't put words in your mouth)
Say that that kid ended up training for 12 months, sleeping soundly at night, eating his food, drinking his milk and all... Come on, does anybody here really think that he wouldn't be a much better version of himself with a much bigger squat and deadlift (If he all of a suddent decided to do barbell variations) with bigger muscles, more endurance, confidence and all the other great benefits that come with lifting heavy metal sticks through arbitrary ranges of motion? If he instead did low bar squats and conventional deadlifts, would he really have been any healthier and better off? I mean, even if the difference in health and quality of life existed, it would've likely been immeasurable.
Only a fool would argue that barbells aren't the most useful pieces of training equipment ever invented and that they're a milion times more useful piece of equipment than a trap bar (or anything else for that matter) but isn't it just plain wrong to say that the trap bar is a useless piece of junk? With all the potential benefits that it can offer for such small drawbacks? I hope you revisit your stance on this topic Rip and that you have a nice day!

- David

[Mark Rippetoe]

Okay David, you can do your trap bar deadlifts. It's fine with me.

[Jovan Dragisic]

Man, that video really set a corner of the web on fire.

[MB Herd]

Since the trap bar topic has arisen again, I'm going to take advantage of it and put this out there.

I ask if you or a SSC would do a video on how to safely and efficiently perform a trap bar deadlift for the Soldiers that are now required to do it.

There's as much, if not more, of bro-science/pseudo-science in the gyms on military posts as in civilian gyms. So, Soldiers pull a muscle, ligament, or tendon. Some need to go to sick call; other try to work through it. Either way, they're injured and may not heal fully because of their continued duties. Many Soldiers (as well as Sailors, Marines, Airmen) come to this site for guidance on how to properly get stronger without getting hurt. They understand your deep, researched knowledge of physio-mechanics and your reasoning for recommending the strength training practices that you do. Videos the Army has put out for deadlift technique are vague at best and usually questionable. Before I retired, my company was instructed on how to do it. The fitness trainers just tasked the biggest guy (not me) to show how its done.

Soldiers have to perform a trap bar deadlift as part of the ACFT. To do so has a penalty. Failing to perform a deadlift means failing the ACFT. Hurting yourself because of poor form in the deadlift could mean failing a later part of the ACFT. It's safe to say that some Soldiers might attempt a PR deadlift (up to the max of 340lbs) to try for a higher score and more rewards. It's worse that Soldiers will have to deadlift in the same shoes they're required to do sprints and run 2 miles in.

In summary, one of the best bodies of knowledge on how Soldiers can perform the trap bar deadlift lies within you and your SSC corps. Even though you don't approve of or program the lift, hundreds of thousands of Soldiers could benefit from your instruction.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Even though you don't approve of or program the lift, hundreds of thousands of Soldiers could benefit from your instruction.

But never will. It's just a damn shame the military is run by the government.