Aging is a disease ?

[VNV]

Funny thing: I find the belief in life after death (an absurdity on its face) to be perhaps the most destructive and pernicious fantasy ever elaborated by our poor monkey brains, and it is our failure to reject this ancient silliness that is the greatest mistake of modern man.

Let us set aside the corrosive effect this belief, in all its primitive, mutually exclusive, intractably violent, and tribalistic permutations, has had on civilization. More relevant to the subject at hand is the manner in which this fairy tale has blunted the potential of countless lives, because when one believes in life eternal after death, the squandering of the only life we really have seems a trivial consideration. This stupidity has robbed billions of the true potentiality of Being Human, and continues to do so.

We live longer in this century, and in centuries to come we may live longer still. All well and good--I'm all in favor of that. But for us, today, in 2022, a trans-centennarian lifespan is highly unlikely, and personal immortality is and will remain physically impossible. It is foolish to squander our days in the childish belief that they may be redeemed and indefinitely extended by some magic pill or some Bronze Age boogey-man in the sky.

I say live the life you have, with all the vigor and appetite, all the depth and breadth, all the love and beauty, all the courage and commitment, all the decency and integrity you can muster. The space between birth and death is all we have, and the meaning and richness of that short flicker of existence is our creation and our responsibility. To face the truth of our own absolute and final mortality is the ultimate act of human strength, courage, wisdom, and authenticity.

Mealy-mouthed he is not.

Would Western civilization have arisen in a purely materialistic culture?

I don't think so, but I am interested in the arguments.

[zft]

They are convinced there is no life after death. The most dangerous mistake of modern man.

You think I'm lying about my numbers in the presence of solid evidence, but you happily believe in this shit?

I say live the life you have, with all the vigor and appetite, all the depth and breadth, all the love and beauty, all the courage and commitment, all the decency and integrity you can muster. The space between birth and death is all we have, and the meaning and richness of that short flicker of existence is our creation and our responsibility.

That's certainly a pragmatic view--but what would say to someone who is deeply cynical about the whole thing: your existence is ephemeral, death (and the death of your consciousness) is perpetual. What does it matter what happens during the brief ephemeral phase?

[VNV]

... What does it matter what happens during the brief ephemeral phase?

We are, after all, just ugly bags of water.

[zft]

We are, after all, just ugly bags of water.

Hey, man, speak for yourself.

[VNV]

Hey, man, speak for yourself.

The crystalline entity speaks to all of us.

[Jonathon Sullivan]

That's certainly a pragmatic view--

It is that, but it is also a deeply existential and philosophical view, firmly grounded in the phenomenology of Being and a clear-eyed observation of what is, as opposed to what we would like.

but what would say to someone who is deeply cynical about the whole thing: your existence is ephemeral, death (and the death of your consciousness) is perpetual. What does it matter what happens during the brief ephemeral phase?

To our cynical friend I would say: "Go to a few parties. They always come to an end, but if you go to the right parties you will meet nice people, drink good wine, hear great stories, have wide-ranging and mind-expanding conversations, make friends, and, hell, you may even learn something before they turn out the lights. Just because it ends doesn't make it worthless...quite the opposite."

[Barry Charles]

Mealy-mouthed he is not.

Would Western civilization have arisen in a purely materialistic culture?

I don't think so, but I am interested in the arguments.

Sure. Why not? Survival of the species might be as strongly wired as anything. It is possible that morality, aesthetics, justice, etc. are materialistic in the sense you are using.

[VNV]

Sure. Why not? Survival of the species might be as strongly wired as anything. It is possible that morality, aesthetics, justice, etc. are materialistic in the sense you are using.

Well, Soviet architecture sucked.

[Jr_Geezer]

It is that, but it is also a deeply existential and philosophical view, firmly grounded in the phenomenology of Being and a clear-eyed observation of what is, as opposed to what we would like.



To our cynical friend I would say: "Go to a few parties. They always come to an end, but if you go to the right parties you will meet nice people, drink good wine, hear great stories, have wide-ranging and mind-expanding conversations, make friends, and, hell, you may even learn something before they turn out the lights. Just because it ends doesn't make it worthless...quite the opposite."

Woody Allen had similar thoughts in “Hannah and Her Sisters”:

It’s Not All a Drag

[Steven Kalin]

Funny thing: I find the belief in life after death (an absurdity on its face) to be perhaps the most destructive and pernicious fantasy ever elaborated by our poor monkey brains, and it is our failure to reject this ancient silliness that is the greatest mistake of modern man.

Let us set aside the corrosive effect this belief, in all its primitive, mutually exclusive, intractably violent, and tribalistic permutations, has had on civilization. More relevant to the subject at hand is the manner in which this fairy tale has blunted the potential of countless lives, because when one believes in life eternal after death, the squandering of the only life we really have seems a trivial consideration. This stupidity has robbed billions of the true potentiality of Being Human, and continues to do so.

We live longer in this century, and in centuries to come we may live longer still. All well and good--I'm all in favor of that. But for us, today, in 2022, a trans-centennarian lifespan is highly unlikely, and personal immortality is and will remain physically impossible. It is foolish to squander our days in the childish belief that they may be redeemed and indefinitely extended by some magic pill or some Bronze Age boogey-man in the sky.

I say live the life you have, with all the vigor and appetite, all the depth and breadth, all the love and beauty, all the courage and commitment, all the decency and integrity you can muster. The space between birth and death is all we have, and the meaning and richness of that short flicker of existence is our creation and our responsibility. To face the truth of our own absolute and final mortality is the ultimate act of human strength, courage, wisdom, and authenticity.

Well fucking said. I have Christian friends, and I’m tolerant of their beliefs, as they are of mine, but I believe what you said to be true.

Mealy-mouthed he is not.

Would Western civilization have arisen in a purely materialistic culture?

I don't think so, but I am interested in the arguments.

I would say our primitive asses needed religion, once upon a time. Probably less so today, although some people probably still need it to stay on the straight and narrow.

Mealy-mouthed he is not.

Would Western civilization have arisen in a purely materialistic culture?

I don't think so, but I am interested in the arguments.

You think I'm lying about my numbers in the presence of solid evidence, but you happily believe in this shit?



That's certainly a pragmatic view--but what would say to someone who is deeply cynical about the whole thing: your existence is ephemeral, death (and the death of your consciousness) is perpetual. What does it matter what happens during the brief ephemeral phase?

Maybe I’m reading too much into your words, but that sounds kind of sociopathic to me.