Aging is a disease ?

[VNV]

…
I would say our primitive asses needed religion, once upon a time. Probably less so today, although some people probably still need it to stay on the straight and narrow….

I wish Wal was still here.

[Jovan Dragisic]

I say live the life you have, with all the vigor and appetite, all the depth and breadth, all the love and beauty, all the courage and commitment, all the decency and integrity you can muster. The space between birth and death is all we have, and the meaning and richness of that short flicker of existence is our creation and our responsibility. To face the truth of our own absolute and final mortality is the ultimate act of human strength, courage, wisdom, and authenticity.

I agree with this completely, but it does not eliminate the very real possibility that your existence is eternal and that you are likely to spend lifetimes redoing everything you got wrong in this life, until you get it right. I am being highly pragmatic.

[Satch12879]

Funny thing: I find the belief in life after death (an absurdity on its face) to be perhaps the most destructive and pernicious fantasy ever elaborated by our poor monkey brains, and it is our failure to reject this ancient silliness that is the greatest mistake of modern man.

Let us set aside the corrosive effect this belief, in all its primitive, mutually exclusive, intractably violent, and tribalistic permutations, has had on civilization. More relevant to the subject at hand is the manner in which this fairy tale has blunted the potential of countless lives, because when one believes in life eternal after death, the squandering of the only life we really have seems a trivial consideration. This stupidity has robbed billions of the true potentiality of Being Human, and continues to do so.

We live longer in this century, and in centuries to come we may live longer still. All well and good--I'm all in favor of that. But for us, today, in 2022, a trans-centennarian lifespan is highly unlikely, and personal immortality is and will remain physically impossible. It is foolish to squander our days in the childish belief that they may be redeemed and indefinitely extended by some magic pill or some Bronze Age boogey-man in the sky.

I say live the life you have, with all the vigor and appetite, all the depth and breadth, all the love and beauty, all the courage and commitment, all the decency and integrity you can muster. The space between birth and death is all we have, and the meaning and richness of that short flicker of existence is our creation and our responsibility. To face the truth of our own absolute and final mortality is the ultimate act of human strength, courage, wisdom, and authenticity.

The great contribution of Modernists and Skeptics is the notion that assenting to Truth as if it was hard wired is a bug and not a feature of man. Somehow this one thing is to be known with absolute certainly. All dissenters are savages. ::yawn:: It is awful curious that when these views became mainstream and accepted that the blossoming of human culture and civilization started to grind to a punishing halt and real and terrible atrocities started to become not just commonplace, but back page stories.

I’m sorry you hold these views, Doctor. They are utterly poisonous. I will pray for you, despite you likely being insulted by it. That’s entirely besides the point, however.

[Jonathon Sullivan]

It is awful curious that when these views became mainstream and accepted that the blossoming of human culture and civilization started to grind to a punishing halt and real and terrible atrocities started to become not just commonplace, but back page stories."

By "these views," do you refer to those that led to the Protestant Reformation and its attendant cultural desecrations, the Wars of Religion that decimated and destabilized Europe and retarded its development for nearly a century, the 30 Years' War that affirmed the rights of nobles to impose their personal religion on their realm, the St. Bartholomew Days' massacre (for which the joyous Pontiff ordered a Te Deum to be sung in celebration and upon hearing of which Phillip of Spain laughed for the only time in his life), the massacre of the Albigensiens ("Kill them all; God will recognize his own"), Cromwell's genocidal invasion of Catholic Ireland, the Crusades, the Saffron Terror, the pornographic ideology of the Christian Identity sects, the horror of the Partition, the Confederate justification of chattel slavery on Biblical Grounds, the Counter-Reformation and the Inquisition, the Columbian Exchange, the sectarian barbarism of post-Tito Yugoslavia, the Taliban, the Islamic Republic of Iran, the Kim Trinity of North Korea (which has been, in my opinion correctly, labeled the most religious state in the world), the house arrest of Galileo, the Catholic suppression of Copernicanism, the despotism of Calvin's Geneva theocracy, the burnings of William Tyndale, Michael Servetus, Jan Hus, Giordano Bruno, Thomas Cranmer, and countless others, the genital mutilation of children, the Scopes Monkey Trial, the very civilized developments in Palestine over the last 70 years, the Troubles in Ireland, and the teaching of "Creation Science" to school children....just off the top of my head? Are those the views you refer to?

Oh yeah. Religion and civilization. Hand-in-glove.

And all this glorious "civilization" and "blossoming" at the low-low cost of complete abjection to an imaginary cosmic despot made in our image, the particulars of whose reign are contingent upon the tribe or nation or era into which one is cast upon his birth, but who for most North Americans and Europeans is preferably a ruthless, capricious, genocidal desert deity of Levantine provenance who asks only that we surrender our personal and moral autonomy under a covenant of filthy human sacrifice and vicarious redemption, the rejection of which covenant, even in good conscience as an exercise of human judgement and autonomy, is punishable by fanatical pogroms against "heretics" and "infidels" in the temporal realm, and eternal loving torture after death.

Oh yes. These ideas just reek with humanity, progress, and civilization, don't they?

I agree with this completely, but it does not eliminate the very real possibility that your existence is eternal and that you are likely to spend lifetimes redoing everything you got wrong in this life, until you get it right.

Do I detect a non-falsifiable proposition here?

[Steven Kalin]

The great contribution of Modernists and Skeptics is the notion that assenting to Truth as if it was hard wired is a bug and not a feature of man. Somehow this one thing is to be known with absolute certainly. All dissenters are savages. ::yawn:: It is awful curious that when these views became mainstream and accepted that the blossoming of human culture and civilization started to grind to a punishing halt and real and terrible atrocities started to become not just commonplace, but back page stories.

I’m sorry you hold these views, Doctor. They are utterly poisonous. I will pray for you, despite you likely being insulted by it. That’s entirely besides the point, however.

I think you’ll find there were plenty of atrocities to go around back when everyone believed. Your head is in the sand if you deny this.

[VNV]

By "these views," do you refer to those that led to the Protestant Reformation and its attendant cultural desecrations, the Wars of Religion that decimated and destabilized Europe and retarded its development for nearly a century, the 30 Years' War that affirmed the rights of nobles to impose their personal religion on their realm, the St. Bartholomew Days' massacre (for which the joyous Pontiff ordered a Te Deum to be sung in celebration and upon hearing of which Phillip of Spain laughed for the only time in his life), the massacre of the Albigensiens ("Kill them all; God will recognize his own"), Cromwell's genocidal invasion of Catholic Ireland, the Crusades, the Saffron Terror, the pornographic ideology of the Christian Identity sects, the horror of the Partition, the Confederate justification of chattel slavery on Biblical Grounds, the Counter-Reformation and the Inquisition, the Columbian Exchange, the sectarian barbarism of post-Tito Yugoslavia, the Taliban, the Islamic Republic of Iran, the Kim Trinity of North Korea (which has been, in my opinion correctly, labeled the most religious state in the world), the house arrest of Galileo, the Catholic suppression of Copernicanism, the despotism of Calvin's Geneva theocracy, the burnings of William Tyndale, Michael Servetus, Jan Hus, Giordano Bruno, Thomas Cranmer, and countless others, the genital mutilation of children, the Scopes Monkey Trial, the very civilized developments in Palestine over the last 70 years, the Troubles in Ireland, and the teaching of "Creation Science" to school children....just off the top of my head? Are those the views you refer to?

Oh yeah. Religion and civilization. Hand-in-glove.

And all this glorious "civilization" and "blossoming" at the low-low cost of complete abjection to an imaginary cosmic despot made in our image, the particulars of whose reign are contingent upon the tribe or nation or era into which one is cast upon his birth, but who for most North Americans and Europeans is preferably a ruthless, capricious, genocidal desert deity of Levantine provenance who asks only that we surrender our personal and moral autonomy under a covenant of filthy human sacrifice and vicarious redemption, the rejection of which covenant, even in good conscience as an exercise of human judgement and autonomy, is punishable by fanatical pogroms against "heretics" and "infidels" in the temporal realm, and eternal loving torture after death.

Oh yes. These ideas just reek with humanity, progress, and civilization, don't they?

Where does the blame for the loss of pastoral bliss lie? On Jesus, his homies, their flunkies, or Jesus’s dysfunctional family?

On this side of it, wasn’t the Soviet paradise supposed to flush it all and start new? Didn’t that represent the unshackling of the material mind?

Perhaps I’m not seeing the golden thread, or strong enough to grasp it. But then, it’s also a popular recourse for fundamentalists.

[Jovan Dragisic]

Do I detect a non-falsifiable proposition here?

I wouldn't be so generous with my statement. I wasn't even trying to debate you. As I said, I agree with your entire point, except that I think you are far too optimistic in thinking all of these conclusions apply to only one life. I hold to the opinion that you will have to pursue them over many other lifetimes. Call me an existential pessimist, I think we will all live forever, but I don't like it.

[Jonathon Sullivan]

On this side of it, wasn’t the Soviet paradise supposed to flush it all and start new? Didn’t that represent the unshackling of the material mind?

Perhaps a bit of due reflection on the very apt and redolent term "Soviet paradise," with all of its fanciful, messianic, utopian, and missionary implications, will begin to illuminate and clarify things for you.

In any event, one need not withhold a critique of heroic materialism (of any stripe) to bring an indictment of theistic religion, especially when one considers that they are often to be found riding in the same war chariot, impaling the same children, and despoiling the same treasuries, cultural properties, and virginal daughters.

[francesco.decaro]

Given the events of the past 2 years, do really believe that these people are interested in extending anyone's lifespan?

As much as I would love to see a 170 year old Joe Biden, we have to realize that extending people's lives means extending evil people's lives as well. These fuckers already live to be 100. If anything we should hope for shorter lives, it would make them more valuable and evil people would die more quickly.
On the other hand it would be cool to have a 405 deadlift at 100 years old and be able to see my grandkids in their 50s and also being able to say "hey remember that covid shit that happened in 2020? That was 100 years ago!"

These are the best ways to prevent or slow aging and will remain so for some time:
-Select parents that live to 125 years old
-Don't smoke crack
-Avoid high levels of radiation
-Stay physically strong
-Sleep more

If you think Bill Gates is concerned about population control now, wait until aging has been cured.

The cure for aging will not come from some Harvard laboratory or government-funded research; It will come from an unheralded and underfunded project by the next Edison, Tesla, Ford or Musk.

I believe the only honorable and acceptable mention there would be Nikola Tesla. The other 3 are scammers in my book. And Ford supported the nazis too, so he may have not been government funded but he was funding that particular government. Musk gets a lot of help from the government from what I hear. And didn't Edison straight up steal Tesla's ideas and never gave him any credit to make a lot of profit?

Well, Soviet architecture sucked.

I'm from Italy, home to A LOT of christian stuff. Gotta tell ya, it gets boring to see Jesus and Mary in every freakin museum you walk into and churches in every small little town and crosses everywhere. Soviet architecture looks much more interesting to me. Especially the mosaics

Perhaps a bit of due reflection on the very apt and redolent term "Soviet paradise," with all of its fanciful, messianic, utopian, and missionary implications, will begin to illuminate and clarify things for you.

In any event, one need not withhold a critique of heroic materialism (of any stripe) to bring an indictment of theistic religion, especially when one considers that they are often to be found riding in the same war chariot, impaling the same children, and despoiling the same treasuries, cultural properties, and virginal daughters.

Although I agree with everything you said, and I can't really see how one could not, I think it is very unlikely to reach a level of human civilization where no one will believe in some kind of alternative life experience other than this one.
I personally like the search for truth that many people share when it comes to psychedelics like Ayuhasca and DMT. A lot of people have the same visions and have had them for centuries and they all end up believing there is "something else" out there, and there are many theories about it.
I definetely like this attitude tied with nature and our historical experience as human beings more than "The Man In The Sky" tale.

I wouldn't be so generous with my statement. I wasn't even trying to debate you. As I said, I agree with your entire point, except that I think you are far too optimistic in thinking all of these conclusions apply to only one life. I hold to the opinion that you will have to pursue them over many other lifetimes. Call me an existential pessimist, I think we will all live forever, but I don't like it.

Theoretically anything seems possible, but calling Reincarnation a very real possibility is just plain wrong, in fact it is illogical.
If you are talking about re-living the same life, how would you know to "get it right"? Are you conserving knowledge from your previous past? Also, isn't everyone else living the exact same life over and over? Are we just all stuck in time? This sounds more like a simulation theory than Reincarnation. Like we are eternal beings who are just having fun playing with these mortal avatars, like you would with a videogame, so we are nothing more than a mortal expression of our eternal beings and the whole universe is just a fake environment? Every eternal being has its own universe? Is every eternal being controlling every single person? Or is every single person an incarnation of themselves as an immortal being? Where do we as eternal beings come from then?

It's all a logical loop. I wouldn't take you for a guy that jumps to a simple conclusion without further analysis, but mabye I'm wrong?

[VNV]

... it gets boring to see Jesus and Mary in every freakin museum you walk into and churches in every small little town and crosses everywhere. ...

Need more imagery of St. Joseph, Mr. T. We're solving that in the States.

... Like we are eternal beings who are just having fun playing with these mortal avatars,...

The Chessboard at the end of Lewis's The Great Divorce.