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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by asm44 View Post
    I too have squatted over 500x5, and I'm not even fat or on TRT like the rest of the board.
    You can tell that about everyone else just by looking at some text? Shit man, you should put that psychic power to work making some serious money.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_B View Post
    A guy who deadlifts 500 is pretty much always going to have a nice, thick muscular appearance until the day he dies.
    You guys are so obsessed with this strength-training-is-supreme-for-all-purposes narrative that you just confidently and unthinkingly spit out blatant bullshit like this. It feels like I'm reading a fucking Jim Wendler book. Back when my deadlift was 500 lbs, I looked like I didn't even lift; you can be quite strong without looking the part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    So how come neither of you guys can tell us how to get bigger than heavy sets of 5?
    I was just after some discussion; it seems like you've either confused this with me having some pre-existing conclusion or just want to needlessly be combative. At any rate, your coauthor seems to suggest that optimal training for strength and optimal training for hypertrophy are different:

    The only problem with strictly focusing on heavy low rep training that leads to myofribrillar hypetrophy is that it isn’t very dramatic after a certain point in time.

    So, we must recognize that muscle growth and physique development doesn’t just come from gains in strength and a bunch of calories. There is another component of muscular growth known as “sarcoplasmic hypetrophy.” This is the type of muscle growth we often associate with higher volume and higher density training (think higher reps (8-20), more sets, and shortened rest periods) This type of training creates an environment for sarcoplasmic hypertrophy which is more simply thought of as the “swelling” of a muscle cell. The swelling effect typically occurs as a result of an increased capacity of the muscle cell to store metabolic substrates within the cell – namely glycogen and water.

    Often this type of hypetrophy as referred to as “non-functional” in nature because there is no direct impact on force production save for a maybe a few minor changes in the leverages around a joint. But there is another problem with this type of training that makes it hard to utilize in conjunction with a true strength-building type of program.
    The problem is that for optimal gains in hypertrophy the trainee needs both types of training. He needs to train the main lifts heavy with some degree of frequency, but he also needs exposure to higher rep/higher density training.

  3. #43
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    And try to remember that this is a strength board. Hypertrophy as a singular purpose is not the point of the forums. I don't care about bodybuilding or the size of your quads. Notice that there are no bodybuilding programs in PPST3. The "exercise science" part is there for completeness, but it has severe limitations, as we have pointed out. It may be removed from future printings. The "practical" part of programming is the getting stronger part, because that's how we accomplish everything else.

    And zft, you haven't answered my simple question.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by zft View Post
    You guys are so obsessed with this strength-training-is-supreme-for-all-purposes narrative that you just confidently and unthinkingly spit out blatant bullshit like this. It feels like I'm reading a fucking Jim Wendler book. Back when my deadlift was 500 lbs, I looked like I didn't even lift; you can be quite strong without looking the part.
    You must have some great neuromuscular efficiency, in which case, good for you. I haven't even deadlifted 500 yet and people think I look strong.

    Quote Originally Posted by zft View Post
    I was just after some discussion; it seems like you've either confused this with me having some pre-existing conclusion or just want to needlessly be combative. At any rate, your coauthor seems to suggest that optimal training for strength and optimal training for hypertrophy are different:
    The beginning is important:

    The only problem with strictly focusing on heavy low rep training that leads to myofribrillar hypetrophy is that it isn’t very dramatic after a certain point in time.
    The other important part is this:

    But there is another problem with this type of training that makes it hard to utilize in conjunction with a true strength-building type of program.
    Consider both, and you should understand.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by zft View Post
    You guys are so obsessed with this strength-training-is-supreme-for-all-purposes narrative that you just confidently and unthinkingly spit out blatant bullshit like this. It feels like I'm reading a fucking Jim Wendler book. Back when my deadlift was 500 lbs, I looked like I didn't even lift; you can be quite strong without looking the part.



    I was just after some discussion; it seems like you've either confused this with me having some pre-existing conclusion or just want to needlessly be combative. At any rate, your coauthor seems to suggest that optimal training for strength and optimal training for hypertrophy are different:
    You just said that Andy suggested that training for optimal strength and optimal hypertrophy are two seperate things, and then quoted him saying that in order to optimally train for hypertrophy you still need strength training.

    If YOU are obsessed with aesthetics, just say so.

    And asm44, I do cosplay Rip a little bit, because he has very very often turned out to be right. It's better than making shit up because you like high reps too, which is not a sin, just don't try to make it what it's not.

    Also, you guys have some proof of these 500+lbs squats you claim to be lifting? From what I understand you are not usual members of the board(?)

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Bigredbull and henryjones are the same guy. Deactivated. You guys need to help me spot these pieces of shit faster.
    Now this made me laugh. What kind of personality runs under 2 profiles?

    Nobody need answer, just disturbing and funny at the same time.

  7. #47
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    Default Light weight at high reps is essential for this one thing....

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    My thoughts on most of this are detailed in the gray book. But over the past few years since the book was written, Andy and I have both come to the conclusion that light weights at high volume/short rest periods are basically useless for just about everything,
    Wrong again. Light weight at high reps is extremely useful for inciting a smoldering tendinopathy in older athletes, which then contributes to economic growth and the general welfare by improving the livelihoods of sports medicine dox, physical therapists, and the manufacturers of recliner chairs, high-power vibrating tendon dildos, magic sleeves and wraps with cosmic copper healing energy, and opiate analgesics. It's win-win, bitches.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    but especially for getting big and strong, and that "hypertrophy" is a function of lifting heavier weights, which cannot be done in 5 sets of 12 with 90 seconds rest. The VAST majority of lifters are novices who need to add 5 pounds to their 3 sets of squats on the next workout, and the intermediate and advanced lifters still paying attention to us do not need to spend any time doing 8-12 reps unless they've decided they are already big and strong enough.
    People just never get tired of being told--and then telling others--that lifting heavy weights isn't necessary.

    I, for one, however, do get tired of it, as I was this morning upon reviewing my messages. Just as I tired long ago of asking if anybody has ever seen a trainee get to a 350 lb squat by doing sets of 20 at 17 lbs, or even sets of 10 at 35 lbs, or even doubles at 165 or sets of 5 at 70 or....

    Nope. That has happened exactly zero times since the Big Fucking Bang.

    But do we ever observe tendinitis and joint pain from 10 sets of 10 or 5 sets of 20? Only. Every. Fucking. Day. But not at my gym. Because my business--and Andy's business, and Rip's business--is not telling people what they want to hear while lifting our shirts and pointing at our abs. Thank God. Guess that wouldn't fly anyway.

    We've been arguing this same silliness for YEARS now. It's just SO tiresome.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovan Dragisic View Post
    I find this phenomenon quite amazing. Here you got a guy basically giving away invaluable knowledge on using barbells to improve everything, but there is a segment of pedantic nitpickers trying to find the tiniest flaws in arguments he made ten years ago. It seems like one of those diseases of the modern age.
    The longer I have been on this board, the more I have been amazed by Rip's patience.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by zft View Post
    you can be quite strong without looking the part.
    You’re so fucking close, man… What does looking strong mean?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathon Sullivan View Post
    Wrong again. Light weight at high reps is extremely useful for inciting a smoldering tendinopathy in older athletes, which then contributes to economic growth and the general welfare by improving the livelihoods of sports medicine dox, physical therapists, and the manufacturers of recliner chairs, high-power vibrating tendon dildos, magic sleeves and wraps with cosmic copper healing energy, and opiate analgesics. It's win-win, bitches.
    First ever actual laugh out loud from reading a post. Sully wins this thread!

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