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Thread: Rip and Stef: Why You Won't Do The Program, Part 1

  1. #1
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    Default Rip and Stef: Why You Won't Do The Program, Part 1

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    I have a theory (but not the education or intellect to properly express it) that in order for for some people to capture the benefits (i.e. strength and to a secondary degree hypertrophy) the body MUST be trained using "as much muscle mass as possible over the longest practical range of motion;" That without doing it that way, the nervous system and spinal column are not adequately stressed to signal that changes and growth are required.

    Obviously, there are some bodybuilder types and outliers who can induce strength and hypertrophy changes with highly isolated movements. But if you're located anywhere on the curve other than this outlying tail, you're going to need to use the compounds and the SS method to realize adaptations. What also injects noise into the system - is that one can induce soreness with single joint machine exercises, which causes people to believe that meaningful growth shall follow. But unless you are one of the aforementioned outliers, that ain't going to happen.

    Simplicity of the program is a feature, not a bug. Brilliant analogy to running, Rip. Although I think I remember reading in "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man" that certain track athletes train by running with their arms held tightly at their side, not pumping them up and down. Sort of like benching with the feet up (which is a silly practice). I don't know if track athletes still do any stiff armed sprint training anymore.

    Anyway, I know you're not "broad" casting the message, but it may help penetrate the minds of the "broad" to point out that running, too, is systemic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatButWeak View Post
    I have a theory (but not the education or intellect to properly express it) that in order for for some people to capture the benefits (i.e. strength and to a secondary degree hypertrophy) the body MUST be trained using "as much muscle mass as possible over the longest practical range of motion;" That without doing it that way, the nervous system and spinal column are not adequately stressed to signal that changes and growth are required.
    I have that same exact theory.

    Obviously, there are some bodybuilder types and outliers who can induce strength and hypertrophy changes with highly isolated movements.
    I've never seen this happen in the absence of Test and Dianabol.

    But if you're located anywhere on the curve other than this outlying tail, you're going to need to use the compounds and the SS method to realize adaptations. What also injects noise into the system - is that one can induce soreness with single joint machine exercises, which causes people to believe that meaningful growth shall follow.
    Yes, soreness is a false indicator. It continues to fool millions of CrossFitters every day.

    Simplicity of the program is a feature, not a bug. Brilliant analogy to running, Rip.

    ...Anyway, I know you're not "broad" casting the message, but it may help penetrate the minds of the "broad" to point out that running, too, is systemic.
    That was Stef's contribution.

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    More excellent information!

    One argument exists but takes nothing away from the article (part one). It seems most people don’t do ANY program. They may sign up for complexity or some other gimmick but ultimately they don’t really do it either. My thinking is the person is a big factor too. Any thoughts or wait for part 2?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatButWeak View Post
    I don't know if track athletes still do any stiff armed sprint training anymore. .
    They do.

    The one's that do, maybe once a week, arms up over head, holding onto a PVC pipe....running fast over mini hurdles.

    Sometimes arms crossed over chest.

    Forces you to focus on and organize your leg mechanics.

    More of an advanced thing.

    America footballers and rugby players run/sprint while cradling a ball at times. Stuff like that comes to mind too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatButWeak View Post
    Obviously, there are some bodybuilder types and outliers who can induce strength and hypertrophy changes with highly isolated movements.
    I got a young guy in my gym. He’s obviously juicing, spends most of his time on the machines, but he’s also got a 350 bench. I am trying to get him to bench 405, he keeps explaining to me that it is impossible without a lot of ten sets of ten for the triceps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Charles View Post
    One argument exists but takes nothing away from the article (part one). It seems most people don’t do ANY program. They may sign up for complexity or some other gimmick but ultimately they don’t really do it either. My thinking is the person is a big factor too. Any thoughts or wait for part 2?
    That's why we say we are narrowcasting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Charles View Post
    More excellent information!

    One argument exists but takes nothing away from the article (part one). It seems most people don’t do ANY program. They may sign up for complexity or some other gimmick but ultimately they don’t really do it either. My thinking is the person is a big factor too. Any thoughts or wait for part 2?
    I think that most people don't really want to do the program or any other is because it's simply just hard and they are not willing to push themselves. So they move onto something else that is complicated and do that until it becomes hard and then move on again.

    I hate to say it but I've done the same thing up until about 4 months ago. I decided to do NLP as written, I've made eating and sleeping a priority. I make time to train even if I've already put in a 12 hour day in the field. I have to convince myself frequently that the way I think I feel is a lie and add 5 more pounds and push. I'll be 60 soon and this is the first time in over twenty years that people notice that I train. I haven't felt this good in a very long time, but damn it's hard. It's worth it though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovan Dragisic View Post
    I got a young guy in my gym. He’s obviously juicing, spends most of his time on the machines, but he’s also got a 350 bench. I am trying to get him to bench 405, he keeps explaining to me that it is impossible without a lot of ten sets of ten for the triceps.
    I got the dude to deadlift with me yesterday!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Charles View Post
    More excellent information!

    One argument exists but takes nothing away from the article (part one). It seems most people don’t do ANY program. They may sign up for complexity or some other gimmick but ultimately they don’t really do it either. My thinking is the person is a big factor too. Any thoughts or wait for part 2?
    For about 25 years, prior to discovering SS at almost 40, I was too lazy to follow the programs outlined in Muscle and Fiction (the only "programs" available to the vast us during the dark ages prior to Windows 95 were insanely detailed "programs" using ten exercises for each bodypart and very little to no instruction on what weight to start with. Little to no mention was made of adding weight to the bar. I was too lazy to be arsed and just did "exercies" until I was tired and worn out. Maybe I would get stronger, maybe I wouldnt.

    Im not sure what Rip wrote that I read, but at some point the simplicity of the message clicked with me: "get stronger 5 pounds per workout and this is how." I finally bought in and started following the program. A simple message here is definitely the best.

    Even today - go ahead and google a program like "German Volume Training" which is an old, old training program. If you know anything about programming and getting stronger under the bar, you will have more questions than answers. The programs as written are foolishly complex.

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