Suggestions for research in sports science

[francesco.decaro]

Why are the arms not perpendicular to the floor in a heavy deadlift?

Have you read the blue book?

[asm44]

Gosh, I never thought about that. Gee. Jeez O Pete. Gosh Darnit. I hate missing things.

I was getting at the specific biomechanics here, which you've previously admitted to not fully understanding:

A stupid question about the deadlift?

Have you read the blue book?

Alright I'm quitting the forum. I can't take the constant barrage of fan boying weak retards like francesco and jovan. This place was alright 10 years ago.

[Mark Rippetoe]

That post was nine (9) years ago. I've explained it so many times since then that I don't understand what you don't understand. But the Italian's question stands: did you read the Blue Book?

[pieza kake]

Maybe it is better to just model the system via computer simulation and get your answers that way. This is what just about every company that 'makes things' does to successfully optimize their products. As a first approach, optimal starting position for a lift is an engineering dynamics problem; its a system of levers (bones) and fulcrums (hinges/joints) with force application areas along the lever surfaces. All of this might be modeled in 3D with inputs for lever and joint materials properties (modulus, etc.), dimensions, starting orientation, and so on, with outputs in terms of force required based on starting orientation. I mean, lots of replacement level mechanical engineers are out there successfully modeling much more complex systems all the time, and plenty of sports enterprises, such as golf club manufactures, use this approach routinely to help their customers optimize their starting positions.

That is a good suggestion. Designing a study that compares two variations of the deadlift, e.g. conventional vs sumo can be quite complex. For instance, how do you go about correlating anthropometry with max weight lifted with each variation for an individual? You cannot test max weight for both variations on the same day due the fatigue creeping in. Then if you test each variation on different days, if the individual is a novice, improved performance on the second variation tested could be attributed to adaption (even though a different variation is tested the first time). On the other hand, if you have a trained individual, then he/she is already well adapted to one variation already.

Anthropometry must play a role with regards to which variation is optimal for max weight. It cannot be coincidence that the majority of light powerlifters deadlift sumo, whereas the majority of heavy ones deadlift conventional.

[francesco.decaro]

I was getting at the specific biomechanics here, which you've previously admitted to not fully understanding:

A stupid question about the deadlift?



Alright I'm quitting the forum. I can't take the constant barrage of fan boying weak retards like francesco and jovan. This place was alright 10 years ago.

I'm a simple man and I like simple concepts.
Shoulders in front of the bar, arms at a 7° angle to the floor, lats pulling at a 90° angle from the humerus, high hips...this is what happens when you deadlift heavy enough weights. What was done in the blue book was simply observing this phenomenon and describing it in detail, because there is no other way to pull a heavy Deadlift. Or even the olympic pulls I might add.

Rip always asks for proof of someone pulling a heavy deadlift that doesn't show those mechanics, and I haven't seen anyone posting anything in response.

What is there more to find out?
People have pulled hundreds of kilos like this. I think it's all figured out as far as the mechanics go.

[Mark Rippetoe]

It cannot be coincidence that the majority of light powerlifters deadlift sumo, whereas the majority of heavy ones deadlift conventional.

The majority of powerlifters do what the majority of other powerlifters do. Sumo is what their football coaches taught them, and some of them are capable of outgrowing this after they've trained long enough to get big and strong.

[Frank_B]

Post the video of the heavy deadlift that you think falsifies the standard pulling position theory.

Just to be clear, Rip, I’m not saying they’re pulling more weight because they’re falsifying the standard pulling position. I’m saying that they’re pulling big weight despite doing things wrong. My question was aimed at the reasons why they do it. I’ve seen all these big strongmen dropping their hips ways down, rolling the bar, etc., and still pull the weight.

Do the hips rise before the weight leaves the ground? Of course. It has to. That’s well established. I’m just curious as to why so many of them make this modification to the lift.

Around 1:10 in the video is what I’m getting at. Despite the theatrical size of the weights, I believe it’s actually at standard deadlift height. Nevertheless, it’s a good example of what I see all the time in Strongman.

Shaw, keeps his hips wider than I believe you’d have him. He drops his hips way down, the knees come way forward and, yes, he pulls it. But it’s clearly not advantageous and it’s a competition… So is there a reason besides theater that they do this?

Best of Brian Shaw | Part 1 | World's Strongest Man - YouTube

[Farmer]

Is there a paper that compares, for example, a hips high vs hips low deadlift (or high bar vs low bar squat or even leg press) and the impact on max weight, training progression/results over a training period, and (maybe) impacts on athletic performance and/or body composition/muscle mass?

There's a couple looking at (nonspecific) squat vs legpress for athletic performance outcomes (SVJ, CMJ, sprint performance). Squat > LegPress.

[Farmer]

The majority of powerlifters do what the majority of other powerlifters do. Sumo is what their football coaches taught them, and some of them are capable of outgrowing this after they've trained long enough to get big and strong.

I think this is a joke and/or an analogy (monkey see monkey do), but sumo really doesn't appear to be commonplace at all in American football S&C (High school, college, NFL)....ANY deadlifting in general really now that I think about it.

[Jovan Dragisic]

Alright I'm quitting the forum. I can't take the constant barrage of fan boying weak retards like francesco and jovan. This place was alright 10 years ago.

I admit, my joke was fairly bad. In my defense, I can say that I was drunk when I wrote it and I don't like it half as much as I did then.