Has anyone attended a seminar that was sponsored by a public safety agency?

[dalan]

This pathetic excuse for a cop and her equally pathetic department can both suck a bag of herpes infested dicks.

[David A. Rowe]

There are none, David. Just understand our position.

I'm trying to do both at once, Rip. Psychologically and emotionally I still feel bestride of both worlds since I'm only two years in. Obligatory reminder I've never tried to be a shitheel about this. I'm trying to throw all the water in my little bucket on the fire.

For what it's worth, I believe I get just a furious as you do about all of this. Wrath is defined as the anger against injustice of the highest order. The types of people in this community, the community I served with downrange, and in law enforcement... there's a down selection that happens. You get an inordinate amount of good people who want to do right despite the bad or outright evil ones.

It's daunting and a little bit heartbreaking to see divides between those people across imaginary lines. I know not everyone can get along, but if I can work the rest of my life towards drawing those good people together across those lines, working to right the wrongs might be doable. All three communities have been turning insular in the face of what they've each dealt with. After having done it myself, I'm just trying to help others keep away from suffering the same.


Maybe I'm tilting at windmills, but I currently see no greater purpose for my life besides this and taking care of my family.

[dalan]

I'm trying to do both at once, Rip. Psychologically and emotionally I still feel bestride of both worlds since I'm only two years in. Obligatory reminder I've never tried to be a shitheel about this. I'm trying to throw all the water in my little bucket on the fire.

For what it's worth, I believe I get just a furious as you do about all of this. Wrath is defined as the anger against injustice of the highest order. The types of people in this community, the community I served with downrange, and in law enforcement... there's a down selection that happens. You get an inordinate amount of good people who want to do right despite the bad or outright evil ones.

It's daunting and a little bit heartbreaking to see divides between those people across imaginary lines. I know not everyone can get along, but if I can work the rest of my life towards drawing those good people together across those lines, working to right the wrongs might be doable. All three communities have been turning insular in the face of what they've each dealt with. After having done it myself, I'm just trying to help others keep away from suffering the same.


Maybe I'm tilting at windmills, but I currently see no greater purpose for my life besides this and taking care of my family.

I appreciate your thoughts, David. I feel like the best thing you, or any cop, can do is to have and hang out with friends who are not law enforcement. When cops are with each other on and off duty, it seems like this is where the "nobody understands me except other cops" and "anyone who isn't law enforcement is a dirtbag" mentality starts.

My source is I used to know a lot of cops through former employment.

[Pekker_head]

I was a police officer in the late 1970s-early 1980s in a mid-size city with a department of about 500 officers. 5 female. Although my experience is dated, I can say that the training was inadequate. 13 week live-in academy. Minimal weaponless self defense (or offense) training. Nothing like jiu jitsu. I don't recall ever hitting the ground. Not much better on the range. i started lifting weights to pass the agility test,l

Not much has changed buddy. That’s why programs like “Street Cop” exist now. Cops are burning their own money and vacation time now to get the training they deserve.

I’m going to go one cynical.

Everything in law enforcement is designed to throw the officer under the bus if something happens. Meaning, nothing is designed to help the officer, it’s all risk mitigation. Academy, training, policies, etc. DTA - Don’t trust anybody

[David A. Rowe]

I appreciate your thoughts, David. I feel like the best thing you, or any cop, can do is to have and hang out with friends who are not law enforcement. When cops are with each other on and off duty, it seems like this is where the "nobody understands me except other cops" and "anyone who isn't law enforcement is a dirtbag" mentality starts.

My source is I used to know a lot of cops through former employment.

You're not wrong. The same thing happens to vets. If I wasn't a vet, there would be no chance that I could have built rapport with the motorcycle club vets around here (as one example). I think it happens to every community that has faced adversity beyond the general populace who are not members of that community. It's hard to kick it with your accounting buddy who's complaining about his email being down when you've just lost another patient in the back of the ambulance. Or had to pull burned up pets out of the ruined remains of someone's home. Or dealt with the aftermath of child rape. Or seen your buddies shredded next to you in an IED strike. Or even just people who have never, even once, gotten mostly strong under a barbell.

The biggest tragedy is both that it seems to happen to the good ones, the guys and girls who actually care (the psychopaths, cowards and idiots slide on to the next thing), and that everyone in your life will instantly treat you differently once you're a part of one of those communities. Especially cops and vets. Cops probably have it the worst, although there's not much love left in a lot of places for the medical profession, either.

Not much has changed buddy. That’s why programs like “Street Cop” exist now. Cops are burning their own money and vacation time now to get the training they deserve.

I’m going to go one cynical.

Everything in law enforcement is designed to throw the officer under the bus if something happens. Meaning, nothing is designed to help the officer, it’s all risk mitigation. Academy, training, policies, etc. DTA - Don’t trust anybody

I am also afforded zero time off or funding for training. I spent what money I could to do what I could, and that's no longer an option. It hurts me to say it, but I'd be willing to bet that this is the rule universally rather than the occasional exception. It's also just another factor that feeds into my point above. Perhaps more unsettling, I honestly don't believe it was intentionally organized that way, either.

________________________________________

A quick thank you to Rip and all of the posters on his board. Sharing my thoughts here and in other threads has helped me organize them and open them up to some outside scrutiny and input. It helps more than you may think.

[FatButWeak]

I was a police officer in the late 1970s-early 1980s in a mid-size city with a department of about 500 officers. 5 female. Although my experience is dated, I can say that the training was inadequate. 13 week live-in academy. Minimal weaponless self defense (or offense) training. Nothing like jiu jitsu. I don't recall ever hitting the ground. Not much better on the range. i started lifting weights to pass the agility test, but there was no continuing requirement to stay fit or be (more like become) competent in fighting skills. If you (female or male) are not confident in your physical skills, you will too quickly resort to deadly force.

Yeah. A very close female family member had a similar experience. 13 week live in "boot camp," the whole works. She completed and passed but is of the opinion that "women should not be cops" because every single woman in her class was pathetic. Her words. She actually became a cop by accident - she thought she was applying for a desk job analyzing insurance fraud files (a field in which she had experience). Turns out it was the full police position as a "detective" investigating insurance fraud. Gun, badge, car, everything. Ridiculous. Its still her opinion that women should not be cops.

[Phill]

You're not wrong. The same thing happens to vets. If I wasn't a vet, there would be no chance that I could have built rapport with the motorcycle club vets around here (as one example). I think it happens to every community that has faced adversity beyond the general populace who are not members of that community. It's hard to kick it with your accounting buddy who's complaining about his email being down when you've just lost another patient in the back of the ambulance. Or had to pull burned up pets out of the ruined remains of someone's home. Or dealt with the aftermath of child rape. Or seen your buddies shredded next to you in an IED strike. Or even just people who have never, even once, gotten mostly strong under a barbell.

Hey David,

It is actually important to listen to your goober buddy complaining about his email not working and other trivial shit that regular folk deal with because that's "normal."

Trivial is good because it keeps your head above water while you wade around in the cesspool of humanity's heinous shit otherwise you'll forget what normal actually is and drown in it.

There probably aren't many who will understand but don't limit yourself to those who do.

[Jovan Dragisic]

Hey David,

It is actually important to listen to your goober buddy complaining about his email not working and other trivial shit that regular folk deal with because that's "normal."

Trivial is good because it keeps your head above water while you wade around in the cesspool of humanity's heinous shit otherwise you'll forget what normal actually is and drown in it.

There probably aren't many who will understand but don't limit yourself to those who do.

Plus, you and the accounting buddy surely got some other things in common that you both like. Everybody likes pizza and beer for instance.

[UberBabs]

Its still her opinion that women should not be cops.

As a female myself who is considerably above average in strength, I tend to think that strength is more critical for firefighters. I would prefer they be male. If a female police officer is skilled in certain martial arts she can certainly hold her own in most situations. The biggest person does not always win. A lot of the job involves psychology and interpersonal skills. I was pretty good at defusing situations. A female can bring a different perspective. But of course my colleagues did not view that as real police work.

[dalan]

As a female myself who is considerably above average in strength, I tend to think that strength is more critical for firefighters. I would prefer they be male. If a female police officer is skilled in certain martial arts she can certainly hold her own in most situations. The biggest person does not always win. A lot of the job involves psychology and interpersonal skills. I was pretty good at defusing situations. A female can bring a different perspective. But of course my colleagues did not view that as real police work.

Please hear me out because I agree with much of what you said. The only part I take issue with is that "if a female police officer is skilled in certain martial arts..." While this is technically true, she would have to be extremely skilled, like professional fighter skilled, to make up for her lack of size and strength in a physical confrontation with a male of even slightly above average strength and especially if he has fighting skill himself. As you know, a street fight for real is about a million times removed from the controlled environment of the classroom so for the training to work against a bigger, stronger opponent in the real world where there's no rules, you'd have to be very, very skilled.

I really like what you said about de-escalation and interpersonal skills. In fact, I think it is far more important than being strong. I also think it is massively lacking in police training these days. These days, even for something as trivial as a traffic infraction, cops seem to feel the need to convey their "authority" with their manner of speaking to people, meaning they are condescending douche bags. Being strong is great but no matter who you are, there will people that are stronger. Much, much stronger, and can fight much, much better and that goes for males too. The skill of deescalation and communication should be a high level priority to teach cops but I feel that it's skipped over almost entirely.