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Thread: Going to College -- Or Not.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewLewis View Post
    Great article Rip and Nick. I've been going through the following exercise for my cousins and relatives for a few years. It may not have changed their mind, but it did give them something to think about.

    Before even taking any college course or considering it for a specific field (any field), the interested party (17 year old senior in high school) should be able to answer the following questions:
    1) What job will you have when you exit college (with a degree or not)?
    2) What do actual practitioners of that job recommend you do?
    3) What do people who hire actual practitioners of that job recommend you do? Contact at least 10 hiring agents
    4) What will the total cost of education be?
    5) What is the annual salary of that job?
    6) How long will it take you to pay off that college debt with the annual salary?
    7) Is that number of years acceptable to you?
    8) If you change your answer to number 1 halfway through college, how salvageable is your time and money or it just a sunk cost?

    There is a solid chance that the answer to number 3 will not be "get a degree" but you don't actually know until you ask.

    If you can't answer all of those questions, you have no business asking for a loan of any size.
    You are asking too many questions and requesting too much leg work for things most people are uncertain about.
    I would have tuned out, pulled out my phone and starting filling out the loan application before we hit question #4 in the conversation.

    Attending college is for partying, not education.
    STEM degrees no longer guarantee the opportunity for gainful employment if you are a white, male American.
    You will be required to sacrifice your physical. mental and spiritual independence in exchange for your degree at a university.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkm5 View Post
    You'll need some prerequisites before jumping into calculus; trigonometry, and analytic geometry. Analytic geometry can be pretty rough without an excellent instructor, but if you get through that, the calculus isn't too bad, although there was calc 1 through calc 4; it's going to take a fair amount of time and effort.
    Just realized, the approach to higher level mathematics resembles the Starting Strength method. Coaching, training, dedication, discipline, and keep adding weight to the bar!

    In my senior year at Michigan Technology University, I took a few courses on advanced level differential equations, as electives, and "just for the fun of it!"

  3. #13
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    My eldest son just got his bachelor's degree in chemistry. He was considering getting a PhD. I talked with a couple PhD chemists from work and they both said to tell him not to waste his time. He had the same feeling as well and got a good job with a fuel cell company with the degree he had.

    Spending another 4+ years in school would have cost $100k for little financial return benefit and the loss of $260k/4 years of earnings. So more than $350k. That's a lot of money to make up. Interestingly he competed with PhD chemists for his role and still got the job before them because he had some real mechanical and trade skills from growing up on a farm.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Subby View Post
    For someone like me who knows basic algebra. Is there a textbook or source for learning calculus that would be useful? or does it need to be taught by a tutor?
    You don’t need prerequisites or a large textbook. What you need to know about single-variable calculus fits in 12 pages. Actually 11. Education doesn’t have to be a long, slow distance event.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbreuer View Post
    I think the recommendation to expose yourself to economics is a good one, but taking only Macroeconomics may not necessarily allow you to "know when you're being lied to by politicians about current events", as it says in the article. Macroeconomics is not settled science and there are many competing schools of thought, including those that say government spending is pretty much always good for economic growth. So if that's the only school of thought you are exposed to, you may not become a more discerning citizen.

    My recommendation for a college-aged student looking for an introduction to economics would be to read "Basic Economics" by Thomas Sowell. No charts or equations, minimal jargon, and clear writing on every page. it will help you develop your economic intuition and think beyond first-order effects. In fact, I think it does for economics what the blue and gray books do for weightlifting: gives readers a clear foundation and exposes the "silly bullshit" that abounds elsewhere.
    Seconded for Basic Economics. In terms of books that are worth their weight in gold, I think of the Blue Book, the Grey Book and the White book. All 3 of them have pride of place in my bookshelf.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva Kaul View Post
    You don’t need prerequisites or a large textbook. What you need to know about single-variable calculus fits in 12 pages. Actually 11. Education doesn’t have to be a long, slow distance event.
    Or read the first 12 pages of Starting Strength and a novice can suddenly pull 405? Gotta put the work in brother!

  7. #17
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    Awesome article. I will be sharing it with my son (when he is older). A great companion to Mike Rowe's S.W.E.A.T. pledge.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkm5 View Post
    Or read the first 12 pages of Starting Strength and a novice can suddenly pull 405? Gotta put the work in brother!
    Shiva has put in the work.

  9. #19
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    Jun 2013
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    Engineering Degree here (not EE), ended up developing software b/c that's where the jobs were at the time.. Told my boys to get a degree if that's the best path to what you like doing, but I won't be paying for it. One served in the Corps and is now a few months short of a Journeyman Electrician License, other is crew lead for for a window replacement company & both are "ahead" of most of their (mid-20's) peers (and might or might not stay that way), but who the fuck cares if they provide for their families and don't loath their jobs?

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkm5 View Post
    Or read the first 12 pages of Starting Strength and a novice can suddenly pull 405? Gotta put the work in brother!
    Bernstein explains differentiating a constant:
    A constant function, such as x ↦ 17, has derivative c ↦ 0, since 17 = 17 + (x - c)0.
    This makes sense because it mimics a definition on the immediately previous page. Calculus Made Easy devotes a whole chapter to this sentence, and it's hardly the most verbose calculus text. Big textbooks can be useful, but they are counterproductive for many.

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