Why some groups are more natural athletes

[novicejay]

Let's say I don't want to read these three books. Or I don't have time. Summarize them for me.

You have read some things or educated yourself on lots of these things already because when I first heard about you, I would listen and read everything you said and you said and still say and do some of the same things in the research. I actually thought at one time you had read all this stuff because of the things you say and do but you replied a while back and indicated you had not.

Hard to describe in a few sentences, but, for example, there are assumptions about Kenyans and running and that Kenyans are just born to run marathons. The reality is there is one tribe in Kenya where most of these runners come from and it has little, if anything, to do with genetics. It has much to do with their lifestyle, i.e., they run everywhere from the time they are young and they are at a high altitude and their diet may also contribute. And there are several people that try to claim it is all kinds of things other than that. Once this tribe started winning, this started an avalanche of even more people in this tribe wanting to compete and this just builds on itself.

Setting aside the Kenyans, you need to have the right coach for whatever it is you are doing. The reality is, similar to my experience with weightlifting, most coaches THINK they know what should be done, and then there are SS Coaches, who actually KNOW what should be done. Obviously, the earlier you get this coaching the better chance you have of making an Olympic Team. For example, when you make corrections regarding knees out on the squat or bend over sooner or drive the hips up or squat below parallel, etc., you do it immediately and fix the problem immediately. Whereas a guy/gal without a SS coach can squat for years thinking he is doing it correctly, but the reality is, he is not and therefore is not as strong as he could be, etc.

In other words, it isn't some "natural talent", depending on how you define talent, or some broadcaster claiming, the player was just born to golf, born smart, born to run a marathon, born to kick a soccer ball, born to ace the ACT/SAT, born to whatever. . . There is going to be some actual reason behind what is happening.

I am fascinated by the study of what causes people to become an expert and I read everything I can on the subject. I used the methods I learned and applied them to my kids.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You have read some things or educated yourself on lots of these things already because when I first heard about you, I would listen and read everything you said and you said and still say and do some of the same things in the research. I actually thought at one time you had read all this stuff because of the things you say and do but you replied a while back and indicated you had not.

Hard to describe in a few sentences, but, for example, there are assumptions about Kenyans and running and that Kenyans are just born to run marathons. The reality is there is one tribe in Kenya where most of these runners come from and it has little, if anything, to do with genetics. It has much to do with their lifestyle, i.e., they run everywhere from the time they are young and they are at a high altitude and their diet may also contribute. And there are several people that try to claim it is all kinds of things other than that. Once this tribe started winning, this started an avalanche of even more people in this tribe wanting to compete and this just builds on itself.

Setting aside the Kenyans, you need to have the right coach for whatever it is you are doing. The reality is, similar to my experience with weightlifting, most coaches THINK they know what should be done, and then there are SS Coaches, who actually KNOW what should be done. Obviously, the earlier you get this coaching the better chance you have of making an Olympic Team. For example, when you make corrections regarding knees out on the squat or bend over sooner or drive the hips up or squat below parallel, etc., you do it immediately and fix the problem immediately. Whereas a guy/gal without a SS coach can squat for years thinking he is doing it correctly, but the reality is, he is not and therefore is not as strong as he could be, etc.

In other words, it isn't some "natural talent", depending on how you define talent, or some broadcaster claiming, the player was just born to golf, born smart, born to run a marathon, born to kick a soccer ball, born to ace the ACT/SAT, born to whatever. . . There is going to be some actual reason behind what is happening.

I am fascinated by the study of what causes people to become an expert and I read everything I can on the subject. I used the methods I learned and applied them to my kids.

That wasn't so hard, was it? Here is my original response:

This trend has been observed for quite some time. Virtually all the 100m sprint records are held by people of West African descent, while virtually all the marathon records are held by people of East African descent. Your question is, why? Since we are talking about a particular gene pool, there must have been some selective pressure on that genotype for long enough to make a significant difference. Would anyone care to speculate?

I don't know that it is genetics, or gene expression. But your statement: "there are assumptions about Kenyans and running and that Kenyans are just born to run marathons. The reality is there is one tribe in Kenya where most of these runners come from and it has little, if anything, to do with genetics."

is not a particularly compelling argument that the genotype of that particular tribe is not the reason for their success. Other groups and many other athletes have trained at altitude and maintain a light bodyweight, and have run the same miles since youth, and this one group of ethnically similar people is overrepresented in the sport, as is also true for sprinting/West Africans. But you speculated, finally, so that's good.

[Bluefan75]

I always like this tweet about Usain Bolt:

"Of the 30 fastest men's 100m sprint times ever, only nine have been run by an athlete NOT banned for drugs - all 9 by Usain Bolt."

I guess they just needed to be clean for in-competition testing.

While more and more I don't believe Bolt was any cleaner than any others, there is still the possibility that the simple physics play the bigger part. ie., Bolt being 6'5"(in a sport where from what I've heard coaches discouraged young athletes who were tall from running the sprints in the past) means he covers more ground with each stride. I believe I read he covered 100m in 42 strides, while most guys are 44-45. So if his turnover is anywhere near the same level as the others, he wins. Does he need drugs to improve his turnover?I don't know. I don't believe he has competed against anyone taller than 6'2" or so, and seeing the field at the last world championships, the tall guys haven't taken over yet.

I think within a decade, though, you will see 100m global finals full of guys 6'5" and up, because Bolt has shown tall guys can run extremely fast, and coaches have been training the tall kids they would have previously steered in other directions.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Look at the finals of any high-level 100m and note the anthropometry: longer tibias than femurs. Easy to see the stride mechanics advantages.

[Yngvi]

They worked very hard for those relatively long tibias.
10,000 hours of well-coached training per leg, I hear.
Outworked everyone.
Just put in the work; if you are not an elite Western African sprinter, it is your own damn fault and you are lazy MS IE SMDH.

[Jovan Dragisic]

Hard to describe in a few sentences, but, for example, there are assumptions about Kenyans and running and that Kenyans are just born to run marathons. The reality is there is one tribe in Kenya where most of these runners come from and it has little, if anything, to do with genetics. It has much to do with their lifestyle, i.e., they run everywhere from the time they are young and they are at a high altitude and their diet may also contribute. And there are several people that try to claim it is all kinds of things other than that. Once this tribe started winning, this started an avalanche of even more people in this tribe wanting to compete and this just builds on itself.

Aren't Ethiopians equally good at long distance? Also, when you say "tribe", make it clear that you aren't thinking of a gaggle of 40 households living together. The "tribe" from which Kenyan runners come numbers five million people. There are dozens of nations with fewer people than that.

[zinedine kilbane]

While more and more I don't believe Bolt was any cleaner than any others, there is still the possibility that the simple physics play the bigger part. ie., Bolt being 6'5"(in a sport where from what I've heard coaches discouraged young athletes who were tall from running the sprints in the past) means he covers more ground with each stride. I believe I read he covered 100m in 42 strides, while most guys are 44-45. So if his turnover is anywhere near the same level as the others, he wins. Does he need drugs to improve his turnover?I don't know. I don't believe he has competed against anyone taller than 6'2" or so, and seeing the field at the last world championships, the tall guys haven't taken over yet.

I think within a decade, though, you will see 100m global finals full of guys 6'5" and up, because Bolt has shown tall guys can run extremely fast, and coaches have been training the tall kids they would have previously steered in other directions.

This is a very good review of the bolt situation:

Usain Bolt, Lance Armstrong and the Duck Test | by Tom Rivers | Medium

In summary: if you think there’s a chance he was clean I have some magic beans I think you could be interested in purchasing

[Mark Rippetoe]

In summary: if you think there’s a chance he was clean I have some magic beans I think you could be interested in purchasing

Right. And he was the only guy in that heat who was on gear. Right. Look, guys, get over the idea that PEDs have anything to do with an individual performance. Everybody -- and I mean EVERYBODY at that level -- is using everything they can possibly use to perform at that level. That is a given, and it is pointless to discuss it, unless you're just trying to make your own squeaky-clean ass feel better about yourself. Grow The Fuck Up, and quit talking about steroids.

[zinedine kilbane]

Right. And he was the only guy in that heat who was on gear. Right. Look, guys, get over the idea that PEDs have anything to do with an individual performance. Everybody -- and I mean EVERYBODY at that level -- is using everything they can possibly use to perform at that level. That is a given, and it is pointless to discuss it, unless you're just trying to make your own squeaky-clean ass feel better about yourself. Grow The Fuck Up, and quit talking about steroids.

You can’t really talk about international performances without considering the countries doping policies though. People talk about Kenyan or Jamaican genetics like they’re magic or something otherwise. A good doping dr is the biggest factor in Jamaican sprinting dominance in the 2000’s. Similarly Kenyan long distance stuff is reliant on the countries ability to assist with avoiding tests , Eastern European weightlifting, that time England dominated sprint cycling due to a good doping dr and so on.

Back to the original topic though; In the nfl or premier league or something everyone’s on the same doping playing field so you can compare different groups relatively fairly. And Black people are massively over represented because they are genetically endowed with more fast twitch muscle fibres.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You can’t really talk about international performances without considering the countries doping policies though. People talk about Kenyan or Jamaican genetics like they’re magic or something otherwise. A good doping dr is the biggest factor in Jamaican sprinting dominance in the 2000’s. Similarly Kenyan long distance stuff is reliant on the countries ability to assist with avoiding tests , Eastern European weightlifting, that time England dominated sprint cycling due to a good doping dr and so on.

Right. Because the individual athletes are not capable of accessing or using PEDs without the help of their highly-competent governments. Right.

Back to the original topic though; In the nfl or premier league or something everyone’s on the same doping playing field so you can compare different groups relatively fairly. And Black people are massively over represented because they are genetically endowed with more fast twitch muscle fibres.

Among other things.