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Thread: Raw Milk

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    It helps if you think it's "healthier."
    Prohibition makes anything more fun. Too bad squats are still legal.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo M View Post
    There could be sources of these microbes rather than raw milk. If they could be proved to be useful, it would be safer to eat food inoculated with pure cultures of them, which is easy to do. But there would not be enough money in it to justify the research, so it won't be done.

    Before pasteurization many people died of milk-borne diseases. I mean many, not just a few. These are bacteria present in most cattle, even with excellent animal husbandry. They include bacteria causing tuberculosis, brucellosis and listeriosis. People still die during outbreaks of Listeria-contaminated cheese. There is no way to eliminate a certain level of deaths from these diseases without pasteurizing milk. Years ago pelvic X-rays of a large proportion of old people revealed calcified tuberculous lymph nodes from drinking raw milk. The germs entered the intestines, and then the lymph nodes in the mesentery.

    I agree adults should be able to do anything they want, so long as it doesn't harm others and the doer is solely responsible for all costs and consequences. But feeding non-pasteurized milk to children will result in the death of some of them from time to time. You would need to prove a very large benefit to them from drinking raw milk before I would think it's OK to let a few die now and then. And raw-milk-drinking adults with children will die from time to time, leaving the children without parents. I don't want to pay for bringing up somebody else's children.
    How do we know the calcified tuberculous lymph nodes were caused by raw milk?
    You are already paying large amounts of tax dollars to bring up other peoples' children; so, maybe there would be a net societal and fiscal benefit to the weakest few children dying from raw milk?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yngvi View Post
    How do we know the calcified tuberculous lymph nodes were caused by raw milk?
    You are already paying large amounts of tax dollars to bring up other peoples' children; so, maybe there would be a net societal and fiscal benefit to the weakest few children dying from raw milk?
    That's what the vaccines are for.

  4. #24
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    Once the first few were biopsied it became unnecessary to keep doing it. There's a characteristic appearance to a tuberculous lymph node on X-ray that is different from calcified nodes due to other infections. And since almost all milk is now pasteurized they are almost never seen any longer.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva Kaul View Post
    There is a large market for fermented foods, which are industrially scalable, logistically friendly and microbiologically superior. Whereas there are inherent logistical and legal challenges in selling raw milk. And milk is an iffy product to begin with; most people should avoid all that sugar, and are better served by ultrafiltered milk (aka Fairlife).
    This is just one of those situations where technology has vastly improved your life.
    Those are fighting words, Shiva.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jovan Dragisic View Post
    I find raw milk foul tasting.
    I have had it straight off a farm before; if it tastes foul, it has gone bad or something was wrong with the cow.

    Good point about the vaccines.
    I am not yet entirely convinced raw milk was the cause of calcified tuberculous lymph nodes.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yngvi View Post
    I have had it straight off a farm before; if it tastes foul, it has gone bad or something was wrong with the cow.
    It is purely a matter of personal taste. I find the taste that you get after homogenization and pasteurization preferable. I mean, I've had plenty of raw milk in my life without adverse health effects. On a personal level it doesn't matter to me anymore, my last stint with milk was a 1/4 GOMAD during my NLP. This is the last time in my life that I plan to grow, so milk is now just something I put in my covfefe in the morning.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Yeah, this is complete California bullshit. Think about it for about 5 seconds: What do enzymes do, and how do they do it? If LACTASE is in the milk, how is LACTOSE also in the milk? Did the State of California tell the LACTASE to leave the LACTOSE alone while it's in the package? Does the LACTASE only work on the LACTOSE sugar after you drink it in Sunny California? Really, why don't you people just pass a law that says lactase enzymes must leave lactose sugar alone until Gavin Newsom says it's okay? Or has that already been done? And pass a law that says that Science must make controlled nuclear fusion possible by 2025? Or that everything in Sunny California is free, except guns?
    The bacteria produce lactase in order to digest the lactose in the milk. Many lactose intolerant people can drink raw milk because of this, example: Tibet. The reason why raw milk is legal in California is because adherents of the "Primal diet" pushed very hard for it to be legal there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Aside from an exponentially higher bacteria count, what are the advantages of raw milk, aside from taste?
    I've heard claims that when milk is pasteurized the calcium becomes cauterized and unusable, and the enzyme that transports phosphorus is denatured ( and they actually use this to determine whether or not it was fully pasteurized ).

    Whether or not any of that is true, I think the fact the government wishes to ban it is a good enough reason to seek it out and support local dairy farmers over globofarms that produce lower quality milk that cannot be sold raw.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJtraining View Post

    Whether or not any of that is true, I think the fact the government wishes to ban it is a good enough reason to seek it out and support local dairy farmers over globofarms that produce lower quality milk that cannot be sold raw.
    What difference do you think there is in a 50 dairy cow farm vs a 5000 dairy cow farm?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJtraining View Post
    The bacteria produce lactase in order to digest the lactose in the milk. Many lactose intolerant people can drink raw milk because of this, example: Tibet. The reason why raw milk is legal in California is because adherents of the "Primal diet" pushed very hard for it to be legal there.
    When do the bacteria start producing the lactase? What tells them to produce it after you drink it?

    I've heard claims that when milk is pasteurized the calcium becomes cauterized and unusable, and the enzyme that transports phosphorus is denatured ( and they actually use this to determine whether or not it was fully pasteurized ).
    Cauterized calcium? Enzymes transporting things? I've heard claims that the vaccines are safe and effective.

    Whether or not any of that is true, I think the fact the government wishes to ban it is a good enough reason to seek it out and support local dairy farmers over globofarms that produce lower quality milk that cannot be sold raw.
    The Government is always the problem. If I want to buy raw milk from a dairy farmer, I should be able to buy raw milk from a dairy farmer. If I want to buy pasteurized homogenized milk from a large dairy co-op, I should be able to do that as well.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJtraining View Post
    The bacteria produce lactase in order to digest the lactose in the milk.
    This is stupid. Yes, beta-gal (aka lactase) is produced by some strains of lactic acid bacteria present in raw milk. And yes, if they aren’t killed, they act upon the milk from the moment it is secreted to the moment it is digested.

    But to the extent these bacteria cleave glucose from lactose, they also ferment glucose to lactic acid. Unless you are drinking raw milk gone sour, you probably aren’t avoiding any lactose.

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