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Thread: Forbidden discussion: Childhood vaccinations

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    Clinical Trial to License RotaTeq, Like Almost All Childhood Vaccines, Did Not Use a Placebo Control

    The 3rd download in this article has a very thorough and extensive list showing the lack of placebo (innert) control vaccine trials.
    Vaccine Safety Debate - ICAN - Informed Consent Action Network

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    Quote Originally Posted by VNV View Post
    Next question up: "electronics" (broadly speaking...phones, etc)
    There are two main issues from my POV. Physical harm and psychological harm. I was in the wireless telecom business from 2004-2012 and I paid attention to studies on wireless risks. This is another area without certainty, but my approach is: Keep electronics that get warm away from your brain (Smartphones, for example), as much as possible. Stay away from base stations: this means not sleeping with a WiFi router next to my head as well as not buying a house that's 100 yards away from a cell tower. The same will apply for Lily. We can't escape EMF, we don't know what it does or doesn't do to long-term health, but we can take simple, non-disruptive steps to keep our tissues away from continued exposure to heat and power.

    Psychologically speaking, I have an unhealthy relationship with my devices and the children in my life have full-blown addictions. No exaggeration: Disturbing, addict-like behavior. It's no surprise, they're extremely engaging and the tech community has books and courses on how to make software addictive. The way my wife and I plan on handling this: An electronic device is a tool to accomplish an objective, not a pacifier. Lily will not have her own device for entertainment, but she will have an unlimited budget for books.

    Curious to hear others' opinions too.

    Quote Originally Posted by jwbucha View Post
    Not a human example, but in the cattle industry a bundled vaccination protocol can definitely knock certain animals on their ass for a few days. Especially young ones. At branding, we administer a cocktail of about 13 individual vaccinations bundled into 2 injections. It is not unheard of to lose a calf or two the day after branding due to the combination of the handling stress and immune system stress from vaccination. Especially if a weather event occurs in the days following the stress.
    Glad to have your perspective on this. If you have a link handy to which vaccines are given to cattle, I'd be interested to read up on them. I'm especially interested in links to vaccine studies related to livestock, if you're able to point me in the right direction. Getting access to the protocols and safety data in a more free market might be a useful proxy to make inferences from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Subby View Post
    I think this is a miscommunication on "bundling"

    I'm referring to the cumulative affects of the vaccine side effects combining to greater than the sum of their parts.
    To your point, I researched why I can't get access to a standalone Pertussis vaccine. Apparently it is more effective when it's bundled. I would look closely at a Pertussis vaccine if there was an effective standalone one. Although even if was "effective," the "safe" part would still be impossible to discern, which means it would likely be a "no" either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Gillenwater View Post
    I was in the wireless telecom business from 2004-2012 and I paid attention to studies on wireless risks. This is another area without certainty, but my approach is: Keep electronics that get warm away from your brain (Smartphones, for example), as much as possible.
    What's your thoughts on wireless headphones? They are so convenient but when I use them for extended periods I feel heat in my ear and sometimes I get a feeling of only what I could describe as waves going through my brain and eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Gillenwater View Post
    The way my wife and I plan on handling this: An electronic device is a tool to accomplish an objective, not a pacifier. Lily will not have her own device for entertainment, but she will have an unlimited budget for books.

    Curious to hear others' opinions too.
    One of the best things about my Fiancee is that she shares this opinion too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Gillenwater View Post
    To your point, I researched why I can't get access to a standalone Pertussis vaccine. Apparently it is more effective when it's bundled. I would look closely at a Pertussis vaccine if there was an effective standalone one. Although even if was "effective," the "safe" part would still be impossible to discern, which means it would likely be a "no" either way.
    That's odd on the face of it. Why would a supposedly completely separate treatment affect a different treatment positively. I would imagine if there is research comparing a stand alone to a bundle it's probably just random chance that hasn't been replicated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilead View Post
    What's your thoughts on wireless headphones? They are so convenient but when I use them for extended periods I feel heat in my ear and sometimes I get a feeling of only what I could describe as waves going through my brain and eyes.
    The way I look at it is: I am going to use my smartphone and I'm going to make phone calls. My goal is to keep large batteries (the thing that gets hot) off of my body and to limit my exposure to high powered radio frequency transmission. If my options for phones calls are: A) Phone against ear B) Wired headset and phone in hand or in pocket or C) phone off body and Bluetooth headset, I'll go for C, which is what I do for several hours per day.

    I don't recall the numbers since it's been almost 20 years since I looked at this closely, but a Bluetooth receiver inside a wireless headset is extremely low-power compared to the radios in your smartphone, powered by a large battery. If you're using a cheap headset, switch to a brand with some engineering chops and an R&D budget, like Apple or Sony, and see if you still notice the problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Gillenwater View Post
    I don't recall the numbers since it's been almost 20 years since I looked at this closely, but a Bluetooth receiver inside a wireless headset is extremely low-power compared to the radios in your smartphone,switch to a brand with some engineering chops and an R&D budget, like Apple or Sony, and see if you still notice the problem.
    I am using Galaxy Buds Pro

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Gillenwater View Post
    Curious to hear others' opinions too.
    I would say, keep her away from screens in general, and smartphones in particular, for as long as you can; I would say certainly no screen whatsoever until she is three/four, and no smartphone until she is ten (at least). A common reason to give smartphones to kids is that you don't have to worry about what they do, and where they are; this can be accomplished with a dumbphone.
    GPS location is a useful feature, but it's not indispensable; if you think you need it, I would suggest installing nothing on the smartphone, no app, and subscribe to a contract with as little data as possible.
    As you have realised, sites like YT and Instagram are genuinely addictive, even for mature people with quite a bit of self-control; keep them away from kids.

    Be prepared to fight a lone battle. A lot of pre-teens get fully-featured smartphones, and kids who don't have them run a serious risk of being socially excluded, as most interactions go via screen and messages. It's bonkers, it's maddening, but it's the reality, and you will probably have to support your daughter through this. School policy might help; some schools don't allow use of phones, of any type, on their premises, and this reduces the extent of social exclusion, because everyone *has* to interact de visu.

    Good luck.

    IPB

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Gillenwater View Post
    Psychologically speaking, I have an unhealthy relationship with my devices and the children in my life have full-blown addictions. No exaggeration: Disturbing, addict-like behavior. It's no surprise, they're extremely engaging and the tech community has books and courses on how to make software addictive. The way my wife and I plan on handling this: An electronic device is a tool to accomplish an objective, not a pacifier. Lily will not have her own device for entertainment, but she will have an unlimited budget for books.

    Curious to hear others' opinions too.
    As the kids say, this. We have three boys, currently between 6 and 12 yrs old. Here's what we do:

    We have a dedicated Amazon Fire tablet for each of them, with strict controls, including no internet/YouTube/messenger app access.
    They get a maximum of one hour of tablet time a day.
    They often get less, or none, depending on behavior and circumstance.
    On normal days, they must earn the tablet time by completing chores prior to the prescribed time.
    The general rule is that anything that runs over the beginning of tablet time (choosing to play outside with friends, finishing chores, etc.) does NOT extend the end of the time.
    All games must be approved by us - more on this below.
    Tablets may only be used in public areas, where we can see what they're doing.
    No games or apps that involve chatting or interaction with anyone outside the home. (e.g. Minecraft worlds can be hosted and shared among our boys, but no public ones whatsoever)
    Audio books have a bit more availability, depending on circumstances, and ALWAYS dependent upon a parent obtaining them.


    The choice of games we learned about empirically, the hard way. "Button mashing" games with unlimited respawns, where you just tap and tap and tap to beat on things until you get what you want are right out, because we saw direct and serious behavioral changes issue forth from them. Impulse control and emotional regulation went straight down the crapper with them when the played these, within a week or less, which makes sense - these games can be played with all reaction, no planning, and no consequences. Even something like Angry Birds, where spamming attempts at the puzzle over and over will eventually work, are not generally good. The mental, emotional, and social impacts were deeply frightening.

    In addition to removing the harmful games, I figured out an alternative. I found a nice, free, old-school style dungeon crawl game, with one and only one life, very little explanatory documentation, and randomized level layouts. When you die, it's over, and you start again from scratch. It's not fair. It's often impossible to win. You have to figure out how things work. You have to adapt. You learn to accept with and learn from failure. You have to learn to strategize. It's been darned near perfect for them. Only one has ever won the game, and it was an ecstatic achievement for both him and his brothers. The opportunities for coaching on emotional control and analytical problem solving have paid off, and it's even presented multiple analogies for dealing with real life challenges. Sort of a nerd household's equivalent of sports metaphors, I guess...

    That said, on long car rides and other such atypical situations, we sometimes treat them with more time, but it's not the norm, and we never use it, as you so aptly put it, as a pacifier. Tablet time is like ice cream.

    The frightening thing is that, even with these controls in place, the tablet time is still a massive center of their attention. They know when it's the time on the clock for tablet time. Threatening the tablet time is the trump card for disciplinary measures. We make very concerted efforts to fight how the tablet so naturally becomes their god, or to put it another way, their idol.

    I absolutely agree with you on books. We don't quite do an unlimited budget, but functionally, it's about the same. We don't catch boys staying up late playing video games, but rather reading, which is not at all the worst thing. They take after both their parents in this, so this is an easy approach for us. They've been introduced to many of the same books we loved as children, and sometimes even the same copies.

    I think it is our esteemed colleague, Mr. Rowe who has pointed out the power of parental example. This is not to be underestimated, especially prior to more rebellious years. My boys delight in picking up heavy things, because that's what they see daddy doing. They get excited about gardening, because they do it with mommy. They don't see their parents watching sports, so they don't, either. They see you burying your face in a screen, they will do likewise. They see you reading, they'll read. They see daddy respecting mommy, they'll respect her and other women, too. And the opposite. It's a multifaceted dynamic.

    I seem to have gotten off on a soapbox or two, here...

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    Personally, I encourage all of my children to play as many video games as possible; counteracts the communist propaganda they get everywhere else.
    People who identify as 'gamers' more likely to be racist, sexist

    Addiction to digital drugs is one of the most serious health issues people face.
    Social media addiction has ruined more women than most street drugs; video games have created more "stoned" men than pot.
    Using screen time as a reward might backfire; how many obese women have you heard say they were rewarded with sweets as children?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yngvi View Post
    Using screen time as a reward might backfire; how many obese women have you heard say they were rewarded with sweets as children?
    I get what you're saying here, though I've also heard no small number of obese people attribute their problems to having been denied sweets as children, as well. That doesn't mean that the privation or indulgence itself in either case is necessarily the root cause.

    Most goods are properly taken in an appropriate (usually moderate) amount with an appropriate object. Alcohol, sex, ambition...even love, anger, hate...

    The general adaptations are self-control, self-regulation, self-awareness, wisdom, and such. That's where I try to guide my kids and myself, for that matter.

    We're somewhat off from the initial topic - Ray, have we hijacked your thread, or are we good?

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