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Thread: Forbidden discussion: Childhood vaccinations

  1. #221
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    • starting strength seminar april 2024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Gillenwater View Post
    Gilead, Rip and I were talking on the phone yesterday and we discussed how appreciative we are of the time and effort you spend contributing to the forum. You have a knack for sourcing hard to find information. Thank you.
    I am happy that that the material I post has value to you, Rip and the readers of the forum.
    To me, this is my way of giving back, and showing my appreciation to Rip, Stef and and the Starting Strength coaches that had a profound positive impact in my strength journey and personal growth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IlPrincipeBrutto View Post
    Some time ago I saw Turtles All The Way down recommended here (maybe in this very thread). It was an excellent recommendation, and reading the book is proving quite interesting, to say the least.

    I've just noticed that someone has embarked on a chapter-by-chapter debunking of the book; I think it might be interesting to read that too.
    Here's the link to the debunking for Chapter 2, which also has a link to the first instalment:

    The Grand Debunk of the antivaxxer book “Turtles All the Way Down” (part 2/10) | Science-Based Medicine


    IPB
    Thanks for the link, Turtles is a great resource but there was quite a few times I thought they were a little hyperbolic and it'd be useful to see the counter arguments.

    Ok I read both parts as well as the links it referred too as well as Offit's blog and holy shit what a waste of time.

    Out of interest are there any actual useful and actual debunks of Turtles?

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    The role of aluminum adjuvants in vaccines raises issues that deserve independent, rigorous and honest science. DDoS-Guard

    Vaccine Safety Conference Session 16 Dr. Christopher Exley - YouTube
    Dr. Christopher Exley- The Systemic Toxicity of Aluminium Adjuvants.

    Dr. Christopher Exley is the Reader in Bioinorganic Chemistry at The Birchall Centre, Keele University in Staffordshire and Honorary Professor at the UHI Millennium Institute. Exley is a biologist (University of Stirling) with a PhD in the ecotoxicology of aluminium (University of Stirling). His research career (1984-present) has focused upon an intriguing paradox; 'how the third most abundant element of the Earth's crust (aluminium) is non-essential and largely inimical to life'. Investigating this mystery has required research in myriad fields from the basic inorganic chemistry of the reaction of aluminium and silicon to the potentially complex biological availability of aluminium in humans. Exley is also fascinated by the element silicon in relation to living things which, as the second most abundant element of the Earth's crust, is also almost devoid of biological function. One possible function of silicon is to keep aluminium out of biology (biota) and this area of study forms a large part of Exley's research.
    My Vaccine Journey: One man’s record of his quest to understand the “other side” of the vaccine controversy in an effort to reduce disunity in the religious Jewish community.

    https://www.rodefshalom613.org/wp-co...e-9-1-20-1.pdf
    Last edited by Gilead; 08-04-2023 at 12:30 AM.

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    Aaron Siris response to Dr. Paul Offits' false claims arguing that it is "casually cruel" to properly test childhood vaccines in a placebo-controlled trial prior to licensure.
    What the “Casual Cruelty” of Dr. Paul Offit Reveals

  5. #225
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    Ray Gillenwater is offline Administrator, Starting Strength Gyms
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    I consolidated the most relevant links into a list in my original post so it's easy to consume the information. Please check my work and keep the information coming on both sides of the debate.

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    Since it's the first claim in Turtles it's always the most commonly one debunked. The one that vaccines aren't tested against true placebos to hide the rate of adverse effects.

    On it's face this makes sense, if a new vaccine has an adverse events rate of 20 in 1000 knowing that the old vaccine is 18 in 1000 isn't that useful. (I think the authors missed an open goal to mention the background rate of adverse events in the general population. If you take 1,000 people, how many of them would you expect to require a trip to hospital in the next month.)
    Most "debunks" respond with some variant of this statement:
    "First, the book’s view of a “true placebo” is wrong and misleading – contrary to the book’s claims, a clinical trial can be valid even if it does not use a saline solution as a placebo as a comparator, and in fact, sometimes using such a comparator is unethical. "

    The validity of the measurement is not the claim, the amount of the measurement is the claim. It's just a giant strawman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Subby View Post
    The validity of the measurement is not the claim, the amount of the measurement is the claim. It's just a giant strawman.
    Similar to the claims that covid also causes myocarditis, so why should we care if the vaccine causes myocarditis as well. But no one asks how many people (especially the youth) actually get sick enough to be effected with myocarditis. The vaccine however, is given to every demographic group. Hence, we see huge signals in the youth from the vaccine and NOT from the virus.

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    This thread lead my wife and I down another rabbit hole.

    She found this decent discussion about safety and spends more time on numbers than on emotional arguments.

    Are the Meningococcal Meningitis Vaccines Safe, Effective, and Necessary? – Everly Report 2023

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    Somewhat of a counterpoint. The smallpox vaccine. Quite dangerous in itself and not given currently because for some reason no-one seems to have issue with understanding that the risks do not outweigh the benefits even though it works. It's also held up as the most successful vaccine, as well as the original, and rarely for the WHO and governments that declare a "war on something" it appeared to have actually worked and smallpox no longer exists.

    I am yet to hear anything around the smallpox vaccine in thinking circles, is this because the story, like polio isn't what it seems, or just because it works as described?

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