Forbidden discussion: Childhood vaccinations

[Gilead]

It's worthwhile to listen to this. RFK addresses your issues and probably more in this speach.
Anthony Fauci and the Public Health Establishment | Hillsdale College Freedom Library

I have this book coming in the mail, hence I haven't read it yet. I ordered it because Steve Kirsch spoke highly about it in one of his articles.
Turtles All The Way Down: Vaccine Science and Myth

[Ray Gillenwater]

Went and saw Lily's pediatrician yesterday for her three-month check up. The guy was disheveled, emotionless, extremely clear, open minded, non-prescriptive, and non-coercive. Reminded me more of an engineer than an MD. Perfect fit for us.

He had DTaP, HIB, and PCV at the top of his list of considerations which aligns with my assessment - Pertussis and Meningitis are real problems, with real exposure risk, that should be mitigated against if the solution is better than the problem. I asked him where I can find source data on which strains the vaccines are designed around and what percentage of the case count can be attributed to vaccine-caused illness. He suggested that I read the package inserts, which he gave to me, and asked that I call his office if I need more information. I asked him for a referral to someone that spends their time pouring over the vaccine safety and efficacy data and he was thinking deeply about whether or not he knows someone who can help. No clear answers yet, and they may never come, but at least I'm getting closer to some level of clarity. I appreciate you guys for chiming in, please keep it coming if you have anything else to share and especially if you can refer me to an analyst I can hire that is fully up to speed on the data.

As I indicated in my previous post; yes the international incidence rate roughly coincides with DDT/neurotoxic pesticide/chemical usage.

Thanks for restating, it clicked this time.

It's worthwhile to listen to this. RFK addresses your issues and probably more in this speach.
Anthony Fauci and the Public Health Establishment | Hillsdale College Freedom Library

He's great. I recommend reading "The Real Anthony Fauci" if you haven't already. BTW, your posts in the C19 thread are excellent, thank you for taking the time to share your findings.

I have this book coming in the mail, hence I haven't read it yet. I ordered it because Steve Kirsch spoke highly about it in one of his articles.
Turtles All The Way Down: Vaccine Science and Myth

Just ordered, much appreciated.

[Gilead]

Went and saw Lily's pediatrician yesterday for her three-month check up. The guy was disheveled, emotionless, extremely clear, open minded, non-prescriptive, and non-coercive. Reminded me more of an engineer than an MD. Perfect fit for us.

He had DTaP, HIB, and PCV at the top of his list of considerations which aligns with my assessment - Pertussis and Meningitis are real problems, with real exposure risk, that should be mitigated against if the solution is better than the problem.

I have had meningitis. The most excruciating pain I have ever experienced in my life. I don't know how I got it, but it was debilitating and rendered me completely incapacitated due to pain.

Regarding calculations, RFK makes a few here Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: Doing the math on meningitis vaccinations – Boulder Daily Camera

Also be very careful if you or your children ever have to get swabbed, as there has been instances where the probability of the swab creating a cerebrospinal fluid breach allowing for such an infection to occur was probable.
This Twitter handle is a wealth of knowledge on many matters and has commented at length about this.
https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3A...-tUvlG6ZQ&s=08

Risk Factors in Children Older Than 5 Years With Pneumococcal Meningitis: Data From a National Network - PubMed

Meningitis due to cerebrospinal fluid leak after nasal swab testing for COVID‐19 - PMC

[Ray Gillenwater]

I have had meningitis. The most excruciating pain I have ever experienced in my life. I don't know how I got it, but it was debilitating and rendered me completely incapacitated due to pain.

If you don't mind a personal question: if you have kids, did you get them the PCV and HIB vaccines?

Either way, I'd be curious to hear how you'd make the assessment, if you're interested in sharing.

Regarding calculations, RFK makes a few here Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.: Doing the math on meningitis vaccinations – Boulder Daily Camera

This is behind a paywall. Is it worth subscribing?

Also be very careful if you or your children ever have to get swabbed, as there has been instances where the probability of the swab creating a cerebrospinal fluid breach allowing for such an infection to occur was probable.

Just emailed my wife about this. It never would have crossed my mind. Thank you.

This Twitter handle is a wealth of knowledge on many matters and has commented at length about this.
https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3A...-tUvlG6ZQ&s=08

This is high quality. Accounts like this are the reason to sign up for Twitter. If you're on there, Gilead, can you follow me or send me your handle? I want to see which other accounts you follow. I'm @raygwater.

Risk Factors in Children Older Than 5 Years With Pneumococcal Meningitis: Data From a National Network - PubMed

More evidence that this is a real problem and solutions should be carefully considered. Thanks again, Gilead.

[Buffaloguy]

I'm curious if any of you have put any effort into performing a risk/reward assessment of each CDC recommended childhood vaccine. I've performed fewer than 10 hours of research and here are my placeholder conclusions, which I'm open to changing if I've gotten any of the details wrong or am missing an important part of the equation:

1. C19 - Most dangerous "vaccine" in the history of VAERs. Healthy infants/toddlers don't die of C19.
2. Hep B - No risk of exposure in childhood.
3. Rotavirus - Seems like a non-issue for babies that are breastfeeding and aren't immunocompromised.
4. Polio - No risk of exposure.
5. Diptheria - No US deaths in 30+ years.
6. Tetanus - No exposure risk at this stage of life.
7. Pertussis - If it were a standalone vaccine, I'd strongly consider it. Seems like a better course of action would be to get a PCR test if baby has a cough and treat immediately with antibiotics if it's a Pertussis diagnosis.
8. Pneumococcus - Polysorbate 80 makes it a bad idea since I have Crohn's (and in general). The infection can also be treated with antibiotics if caught early.
9. MMR - Low risk of catching. Vaccine has a weak safety profile.
10. Chickenpox - Not severe for kids.
11. Hep A - 1% of infants have seizures when exposed to vaccine. Mild disease. Worth considering as an adult.
12. Hib - The actHIB brand seems to be low risk and worthwhile, assuming the predominant strain is covered by the vaccine. More research needed.
13. Flu - No convincing evidence that it works in infants. Death is rare. Treatable. Usually mild. Vaccine causes flu like symptoms.

I don't want to inject aluminum, formaldehyde, or any foreign substance into my daughter unless it's to reliably mitigate a legitimate, quantifiable risk. Hib is the only one that tentatively meets those criteria.

What am I failing to consider, if anything?

Im a family physician. I used to see peds for primary care but not anmore.

I agree with most of this. No way to the covid vacine for kids, lowest risk of illness from covid and highest risk of harm (as far as im aware). Evidence for effectiveness of flu vax is uncompelling, IMO, would only consider if kid had bad asthma or other chronic issue. I have met multiple people who had guillaine barre from flu (one really serious case that completely incapacitated a healthy man for over a year).

Personally I would do polio mostly due to possibility of catching it traveling (still low). Hep B is extremely common in people from some asian countries but not common in americans, possibly due to vaccination here, i dont know. Giving it at birth is silly, after that can be a personal decision.

Measles/Mumps/Rubella - Rubella is not harmful to kids, the concern is them passing it to pregnant women and effecting a fetus in utero. Measles is a serious pediatric illness and may come back due to vaccine "hesitancy" (Fun term). Agree regarding hep A. Varicella vaccine I agree could be put off, you do want to get to consider it before becoming pregnant. Hib and pneumoccocal make sense to me, cause serious illnesses and deaths, but I wouldn't say they are essential, and plenty of people still get pneumococcal pneumonia.

[franklie]

1. Rotavirus - Seems like a non-issue for babies that are breastfeeding and aren't immunocompromised.

Over 30 years ago, my daughter at 1 yo got rotavirus. I live in a 1st world country. The area where I lived had some of the best medical care in the world available. Within a span of about 6 hours she went from a peppy, vibrant kid to a listless, dehydrated child. Within 3 hours of my daughter exhibiting symptoms, mainly diarrhea and vomiting, we were at urgent care/emergency care. UC/ER couldn't treat her they couldn't figure out what what was wrong. We were sent to the local children's hospital for evaluation. After close to 12 hours after having symptoms first presenting the pediatric medical personnel who seeing that she was dehydrated went to put a rehydrating IV in her. it took 4 nurses to hold her (a one year-old child) down. her screams broke my heart. the minute the fluid started rehydrating her she immediately zonked out and was fast asleep. the next day when I went to visit her she was pushing her IC bottle stand around in her room still with the IV in her.

At the time, rotavirus was a very uncommon disease in the US although prevalent in other less developed countries. I think it may have been the first time the doctors had seen a case of rotavirus. The two factors listed in the quote above weren't relevant for her as she had been breast-fed and in general was in good health.

One thing that I still remember is how nasty smelling her diapers were due to the virus. Diapers of breast-fed babies have a unique smell and diapers of formula-fed babies have a different smell but rotavirus diapers have stomach-turning smell.

[Ray Gillenwater]

The two factors listed in the quote above weren't relevant for her as she had been breast-fed and in general was in good health.

Thanks for sharing. I need to do more research on how likely this is to occur, how probable it is that the vaccine will prevent this from happening, and the side-effects/safety of the vaccine.

[gadders]

Chicken Pox vaccine isn't offered on the NHS in the UK. We thought about getting it privately, but in the meantime our daughter caught it anyway at around 2-3 years old. All I can remember is she was miserable and watching her suffer we wish we'd had her vaccinated.

Admittedly, this is an emotional reaction rather than a dispassionate review of evidence, but I think as adults you forget how horrible chicken pox can be on the very young. I had it at 7 or so and don't have any bad memories of it.

[FrankNJ]

Two factors to consider:
(1) The risk and prevalence of the more serious diseases (e.g. Polio) is low because a vast majority of the population is vaccinated. One could reasonably assume that if a large portion of the population stopped vaccinating, then some of these diseases could return with serious consequences. Therefore, we enjoy low risk today because previous generations vaccinated. We vaccinate today to reduce the risk for future generations.
(2) Despite the current geopolitical tensions, the world is still very integrated and globalization continues. Therefore, we probably don't have a good idea of how many of these diseases are introduced into our population on a daily bases simply because the diseases never get a chance to propagate. As long as these diseases exist somewhere in the world, then there is risk of exposure, particularly if you are not vaccinated.

The way we went about making the decision for my son was to assume that we would be exposed to every one of those diseases. We travel a lot, so the probability of exposure is high. Therefore, we vaccinated him for everything with the following exceptions; (1) Although not mandatory, he got a leprosy vaccine in China. (2) No C19 and no Influenza.

Best of luck with whatever decision you make.

[Jovan Dragisic]

Two factors to consider:
(1) The risk and prevalence of the more serious diseases (e.g. Polio) is low because a vast majority of the population is vaccinated. One could reasonably assume that if a large portion of the population stopped vaccinating, then some of these diseases could return with serious consequences. Therefore, we enjoy low risk today because previous generations vaccinated. We vaccinate today to reduce the risk for future generations.
(2) Despite the current geopolitical tensions, the world is still very integrated and globalization continues. Therefore, we probably don't have a good idea of how many of these diseases are introduced into our population on a daily bases simply because the diseases never get a chance to propagate. As long as these diseases exist somewhere in the world, then there is risk of exposure, particularly if you are not vaccinated.

You say this as if it was unequivocally true.