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Thread: Trained Legs Hurt More Than Untrained Legs

  1. #1
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    Default Trained Legs Hurt More Than Untrained Legs

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    Hi Mark,
    I'm 28M and have a squat of ~315 and deadlift of ~405.

    I walked about ~7-12 miles/day for 4 days with my three friends. All these friends are absolutely untrained and not athletes. But I was the only one with terrible leg aches by the end of the first day; especially in the hamstrings, Popliteal Fossa, and the calves. We ate the same kind of food, but I ate more and even had extra protein.

    Walking being a sub-maximal activity should've been much easier for me than all those untrained guys, right? How does one wrap their head around this?

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    What happened the second day?

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    Maybe it has something to do with the "congenitally limited dorsiflexion in [your] right ankle, causing a mild limp while walking"?

    Pinched nerve in neck causing numbness in right thumb. Any alternatives to squatting?

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    Can your friends squat 315 for reps and then go on a 8 mile hike the next day?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StandupEconomist View Post
    Hi Mark,
    I'm 28M and have a squat of ~315 and deadlift of ~405.

    I walked about ~7-12 miles/day for 4 days with my three friends. All these friends are absolutely untrained and not athletes. But I was the only one with terrible leg aches by the end of the first day; especially in the hamstrings, Popliteal Fossa, and the calves. We ate the same kind of food, but I ate more and even had extra protein.

    Walking being a sub-maximal activity should've been much easier for me than all those untrained guys, right? How does one wrap their head around this?

    Thanks
    You're not used to walking 7-12 miles in one day. It's a different kind of stress, but it's a stress that you can easily adapt to and become efficient in due to your accumulated strength adaptation, which is the reason why Rip asked you what happened the following day.
    If you squat 315lbs for 3 sets of 5, and then try to do it again in a few hours, you will likely fail or the lift is gonna feel much worse. It's just because you are still recovering from the stress and haven't adapted yet, not because you're not getting stronger.
    You did this walk for 4 days in a row, and you have been training too in the meantime I'm guessing.
    So it's just an additional acute stress you weren't adapted to. Go again next week and see what happens.
    Plus, who cares about walking for 12 miles and being a little sore (pretty sure your pain wasn't debilitating, people tend to exaggerate their self-perception of pain or discomfort, and the fact that you went for this walk 3 more times proves this). It's not a useful activity and you can adapt to it pretty quickly. If someone needs to push their car, who's gonna be more useful between you and your friends? And if they push the car, how are their legs going to feel compared to yours?
    If you faint during the walk because of your terrible leg aches, are your friends gonna be able to lift you and carry you somewhere safe?
    If you stop to buy some beers and food to bring with you, who's gonna have an easier time carrying those around?

    TL.DR:
    Just because you had soreness it doesn't mean it was harder for you, it just means your friends are used to walking all the time and you're not. It has nothing to do with your strength adaptation

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    Walking 10 miles a day for 4 days may involve submaximal contractions, but it is not "easy." There are still a LOT of those submaximal contractions, and lot of the wear is on things like ligaments and connective tissue, which may be unadapted to repeated submaximal contractyion. Strength training makes you uniformly better at physical activity, it doesn't make you uniformly GOOD at physical activity you are not adapted to. A guy who can squat 315 will have an easier time walking ten miles than that same guy who can't, but won't have an easier time than the non-strength trained guy who walks ten miles a day.

    Additionally, how big are you? There's a reason endurance athletes keep their weight down: the stress of bearing your body weight on connective tissue and joints does not scale linearly with strength.

    From the sound of it, this amount of walking is something you don't do regularly. Walk ten miles a day and you'll be used to it in a week. And you'll get used to it *faster*, because you don't have to develop any strength to adapt to it, because you've already developed that through strength training.

    SS tells you to get strong FIRST. It doesn't tell you to get strong LAST.

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    Quote Originally Posted by francesco.decaro View Post
    Just because you had soreness it doesn't mean it was harder for you, it just means your friends are used to walking all the time and you're not. It has nothing to do with your strength adaptation

    And your friends are probably liars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    What happened the second day?
    We continued walking. My pain was much greater than theirs. They were tired, I was in pain. Same for the third, and the fourth.
    I was also popping ibuprofens and acetaminophens to numb the pain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramus View Post
    Maybe it has something to do with the "congenitally limited dorsiflexion in [your] right ankle, causing a mild limp while walking"?

    Pinched nerve in neck causing numbness in right thumb. Any alternatives to squatting?
    Thanks. I suspected this had to do something, but I've walked such long distances before I started training, and never had the kind of pain I felt last week.

    Quote Originally Posted by GioFerrante View Post
    Can your friends squat 315 for reps and then go on a 8 mile hike the next day?
    No, nobody in that group trains. I did not train for two days before the hike. So it wouldn't have been lack of recovery from the squats.

    Quote Originally Posted by francesco.decaro View Post
    You're not used to walking 7-12 miles in one day. It's a different kind of stress, but it's a stress that you can easily adapt to and become efficient in due to your accumulated strength adaptation, which is the reason why Rip asked you what happened the following day.
    If you squat 315lbs for 3 sets of 5, and then try to do it again in a few hours, you will likely fail or the lift is gonna feel much worse. It's just because you are still recovering from the stress and haven't adapted yet, not because you're not getting stronger.
    You did this walk for 4 days in a row, and you have been training too in the meantime I'm guessing.
    So it's just an additional acute stress you weren't adapted to. Go again next week and see what happens.
    Plus, who cares about walking for 12 miles and being a little sore (pretty sure your pain wasn't debilitating, people tend to exaggerate their self-perception of pain or discomfort, and the fact that you went for this walk 3 more times proves this). It's not a useful activity and you can adapt to it pretty quickly. If someone needs to push their car, who's gonna be more useful between you and your friends? And if they push the car, how are their legs going to feel compared to yours?
    If you faint during the walk because of your terrible leg aches, are your friends gonna be able to lift you and carry you somewhere safe?
    If you stop to buy some beers and food to bring with you, who's gonna have an easier time carrying those around?

    TL.DR:
    Just because you had soreness it doesn't mean it was harder for you, it just means your friends are used to walking all the time and you're not. It has nothing to do with your strength adaptation
    Thanks, yes. I can understand the first part of your explanation, which is comparing myself to my other untrained friends, who maybe used to walking. Plausible explanation.
    Also, I am trying to compare myself to my earlier untrained self. I have walked such looong distances, but never was in such pain, where my hamstrings and tendons (?the ones behind the knee), and quads were hurting. I should've been easier now, but wasn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maybach View Post
    There are still a LOT of those submaximal contractions, and lot of the wear is on things like ligaments and connective tissue, which may be unadapted to repeated submaximal contractyion. Strength training makes you uniformly better at physical activity, it doesn't make you uniformly GOOD at physical activity you are not adapted to.


    Additionally, how big are you? There's a reason endurance athletes keep their weight down: the stress of bearing your body weight on connective tissue and joints does not scale linearly with strength. .
    Maybach, thank you. Yes, it felt like the pain was in the ligaments. I'm not heavy, about 190lbs. I'm sure I can get used to it if I walk regularly.
    I was under the impression that strength makes you strong uniformly. For example, my 405 deadlift should translate to a force production of << 405 on demand during emergencies, without warmups, when I need it in the real world. Similarly, strong legs should help me perform a much much lower submaximal activity without any significant warmup or practice, no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    What happened the second day?
    The pain persisted, and perhaps grew until I rested and decreased my activity gradually. After the first day, I popped ibuprofens, acetaminophens, used lidocaine patches and kept going. None of my friends even had to consider any such remedies.

  9. #9
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    Gosh, maybe you should stop training. I've never experienced this myself, or heard of it before. I clearly remember doing 405 x 10 x 3 one Sunday afternoon, and then running 6 miles with Starr. But the again, I was running, not walking, so I don't know. I know walking is important, so you probably need to stop lifting, since that's obviously what caused this pain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StandupEconomist View Post
    No, nobody in that group trains. I did not train for two days before the hike. So it wouldn't have been lack of recovery from the squats.
    ...

    The pain persisted, and perhaps grew until I rested and decreased my activity gradually. After the first day, I popped ibuprofens, acetaminophens, used lidocaine patches and kept going. None of my friends even had to consider any such remedies.
    (Recovered enough to add weight to the bar for squats) does not necessarily equal (completely dissipated all accumulated stress)...

    Quote Originally Posted by StandupEconomist View Post
    ...I've walked such long distances before I started training, and never had the kind of pain I felt last week.
    ...
    Also, I am trying to compare myself to my earlier untrained self. I have walked such looong distances, but never was in such pain, where my hamstrings and tendons (?the ones behind the knee), and quads were hurting. I should've been easier now, but wasn't.
    I used to walk/hike a lot more when I was younger, in Scouting, walking across campus, not owning a car, training in the infantry, etc. I also trained heavily in martial arts. However, I never got strong then. The past six years, I've been getting closer to strong, and I can categorically say that "sore" means something markedly different now. I feel non-strength activities later in places and in ways I never got sore before, markedly hamstrings and hips, and walking is one of the big ones.

    Of course, I am also utterly bereft of certain kinds of soreness, pain, and ultimately debility from that previous phase of life, so...I think some of this is just part of the deal. I prefer where I am now, but your take is up to you.

    Nociception is a complex and many-splendoured thing.

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