Chase Lindley SSC: Upper Body Specialization

[Mark Rippetoe]

Upper Body Specialization: Who, What, When | Chase Lindley

[Chiaki Nitya]

There's like 4 or 5 lifts overall, and only two upper body... is "specialization" really needed? The article doesn't really make a compelling case.

"No matter which exercise you pick the other will make little progress"

Fully disagree with this. My experience and my first-hand observations of those who perform both bench and press competitively are able to do both at an advanced level.

"pin bench are great builders of lockout strength and are done without specialty equipment."

Disagree with this as well unless he's talking about shirtless benchers. Raw benchers rarely miss at lockout.

[CommanderFun]

Disagree with this as well unless he's talking about shirtless benchers. Raw benchers rarely miss at lockout.

The pins don't have to be set close to lockout. You can set them wherever your lift usually fails. Raw benches might not miss close to lockout but they VERY rarely miss without getting some distance off the chest.

Granted, I don't use pin work myself, but that's due to limitations in where I commonly train. I physically cannot press inside most power racks, and people in commercial gyms get really pissed if you drag a bench in there because it's a lot more important for some guy to get into that rack to do his high rep reverse lunge sets with an empty bar, or half squats.

[Chiaki Nitya]

The pins don't have to be set close to lockout. You can set them wherever your lift usually fails. Raw benches might not miss close to lockout but they VERY rarely miss without getting some distance off the chest

Fully agreed. I was commenting specifically on the article, not pin bench in general.

[zach_the_jew]

"No matter which exercise you pick the other will make little progress"

Fully disagree with this. My experience and my first-hand observations of those who perform both bench and press competitively are able to do both at an advanced level.

As far as I can tell, intermediates who can get away with low volume on presses (1.5-2 times a week) can progress both bench and press, but once you get into serious weights and need 3-4 press sessions a week, it’s going to be a real bitch to find the time to get enough volume in to progress both - and this is assuming optimal recovery.

[Chiaki Nitya]

As far as I can tell, intermediates who can get away with low volume on presses (1.5-2 times a week) can progress both bench and press, but once you get into serious weights and need 3-4 press sessions a week, it’s going to be a real bitch to find the time to get enough volume in to progress both - and this is assuming optimal recovery.

I get it, I guess, but who does that really apply to? Like 3 people on the planet whose bench or press is so advanced they can't train the other? I guess I've just trained around enough powerlifters/strongmen that have both insane benches and huge overhead presses, and continue to train both, that I'm skeptical about there being a need to specialize one or the other.

[Jason Donaldson]

I get it, I guess, but who does that really apply to? Like 3 people on the planet whose bench or press is so advanced they can't train the other? I guess I've just trained around enough powerlifters/strongmen that have both insane benches and huge overhead presses, and continue to train both, that I'm skeptical about there being a need to specialize one or the other.

Perhaps the question is less about "will you have an awesome press and bench compared to the world?", and more "will you have as awesome a press and bench as you could?"

In other words, I think Chase is saying more that you can get all around strong for sure, but eventually you'll have to pick which of the pressing movements you'll get super close to your own potential, and the which will just be a lesser percentage of your potential.

[ChaseLindley]

I've never met or known anyone who has both really heavy upper body lifts. Usually the lift the lifter focuses on or specializes in is very good in terms of weight on the bar, but the other lift is being "carried" along by the pre-dominantly trained lift. For example: the thought that the stress generated by the Bench will help make a Press jump up 50lbs+ is wrong. The practice of the Press movement pattern needs to be specialized in. The stress generated from non-overhead related work doesn't help the Press now that the lifter is advanced, but the specific stress from heavy pin presses, press volume, and singles does correlate to a stronger press.

Disagree with this as well unless he's talking about shirtless benchers. Raw benchers rarely miss at lockout.

So, what do you call it when the bar is coming off the chest and is going back to the start position of a bench?...I'd call that the lockout.

As far as I can tell, intermediates who can get away with low volume on presses (1.5-2 times a week) can progress both bench and press, but once you get into serious weights and need 3-4 press sessions a week, it’s going to be a real bitch to find the time to get enough volume in to progress both - and this is assuming optimal recovery.

That's why the article is mainly referring to advanced lifters who's already setting the time aside to train and compete. They've figured out what sport/meet style they want to compete in, and have narrowed down the certain exercises they use to help manage stress for the lifts. In other words, they know what works for them by this time in training because they have been training at least 5+ years by now. Intermediate lifters are still trying to figure out what the fuck is going on. Half of them shouldn't be intermediates because they haven't truly run a NLP to the utmost. The other half spend their time indecisively going from program, to diet, or some other new and shiny thing.

I get it, I guess, but who does that really apply to? Like 3 people on the planet whose bench or press is so advanced they can't train the other? I guess I've just trained around enough powerlifters/strongmen that have both insane benches and huge overhead presses, and continue to train both, that I'm skeptical about there being a need to specialize one or the other.

Advanced lifters are still training the non-specialized lift. They just don't devote as much time and effort into it.

I'm sure that your powerlifting buddies were either specializing in the Bench without you realizing that about their programming, or they were just naturally gifted to have both a really strong bench and press. But they could have gone further in their preferred lift if they'd actually committed themselves to specialize in it. What you saw were them just tapping into their genetic potential for upper body gains.

Doesn't Strongman devote a lot of practice and training to overhead work? Sounds like they specialize in the press, but they do a shit job of it in terms of how they program for it. Just how I see it.

Perhaps the question is less about "will you have an awesome press and bench compared to the world?", and more "will you have as awesome a press and bench as you could?"

In other words, I think Chase is saying more that you can get all around strong for sure, but eventually you'll have to pick which of the pressing movements you'll get super close to your own potential, and the which will just be a lesser percentage of your potential.

This article wasn't meant for novices or for intermediates. Thats what I clarified in paragraphs starting in numbers 1-3. The article is a POV from myself being an advanced lifter trying to maximize my time and effort spent on the Press, and as my time spent coaching advanced athletes in the gym.

[Chiaki Nitya]

So, what do you call it when the bar is coming off the chest and is going back to the start position of a bench?...I'd call that the lockout.

That's a bench press. The lockout refers to the last 1/3 or 1/4 ROM of the concentric portion. Most raw benchers don't need or benefit from extra lockout work, if anything they need extra work from 1-2" off the chest.

The article is a POV from myself being an advanced lifter trying to maximize my time and effort spent on the Press, and as my time spent coaching advanced athletes in the gym.

This is not a loaded question at all, I am genuinely curious as you have much more coaching experience than I do, how many people have you coached that were unable to continue to progress on both bench and press and had to pick one to focus on?

[ChaseLindley]

That's a bench press. The lockout refers to the last 1/3 or 1/4 ROM of the concentric portion. Most raw benchers don't need or benefit from extra lockout work, if anything they need extra work from 1-2" off the chest.


I think they do. Mostly every lifter can control the eccentric portion of the lift, but the other half or the concentric is where people typically fail at. The pins help with controlling the scapular retraction, the upper back musculature's role in maintaining the arch, and the elbow positioning underneath an overload. It would be very beneficial for raw lifter or even equipped lifters to program this.

This is not a loaded question at all, I am genuinely curious as you have much more coaching experience than I do, how many people have you coached that were unable to continue to progress on both bench and press and had to pick one to focus on?

I wouldnt say "unable to continue"; no one should be stalling in the bench or press unless their programming or recovery are shit. Everyone one of the advanced lifters I've worked with have made progress in the non-specialized lift. But the rate of progress is not the same compared to the specialized lift. More time, resources, and work have been geared to the specialized lift because that's what their sport demands. If the lifter is an advanced powerlifter, his bench will be drastically stronger then his press due to how much he's put into it. But I've seen their press increased by 5-10lbs in a 3 month cycle.