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Thread: Hard Water

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by wal View Post
    I looked as various water treatments such as filtering, inline grounded devices that break up the so called bond of the dissolved scale, but too expensive. So I had the old gal pipe replaced with copper and grounded it and bought a bunch of neodymium magnets and placed around a section of the pipe. I heard that magnetic water treatment can stop lime scale build up over time which I thought was pseudo science, but in the last six months there has been little or no scale in the kettle which I use to descale every month previously, so maybe it does work. The water is still hard when I test it but it seems no lime scale, anybody got a suggestion what is going on?
    The magnet stuff has been around a long time. The ads say it alters the molecular structure, which taken literally is probably bullshit, but it may actually change how the ions are suspended in solution. This does not remove anything - but it *may* result in a reduction in sediment buildup which you say you've personally experienced.

    So, if it's working for you, it will reduce buildup in boiling containers and faucets. Which is a good thing. It will not change the dissolved solids in the water and therefore will not affect how it feels on your skin nor will it decrease the need for detergents (most modern cleansers have chemical water softeners). I didn't see any difference with the electromagnetic product I tried. Salt water softeners immediately eliminate new buildup and will start reversing old deposits. But now you have to regularly add salt.

    If you want good tasting water for drinking it needs to be filtered in some manner. If you go with a salt water softener then adding a reverse osmosis filter for the kitchen is almost mandatory.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Miller View Post
    The magnet stuff has been around a long time. The ads say it alters the molecular structure, which taken literally is probably bullshit, but it may actually change how the ions are suspended in solution. This does not remove anything - but it *may* result in a reduction in sediment buildup which you say you've personally experienced.

    So, if it's working for you, it will reduce buildup in boiling containers and faucets. Which is a good thing. It will not change the dissolved solids in the water and therefore will not affect how it feels on your skin nor will it decrease the need for detergents (most modern cleansers have chemical water softeners). I didn't see any difference with the electromagnetic product I tried. Salt water softeners immediately eliminate new buildup and will start reversing old deposits. But now you have to regularly add salt.

    If you want good tasting water for drinking it needs to be filtered in some manner. If you go with a salt water softener then adding a reverse osmosis filter for the kitchen is almost mandatory.
    I don't have a problem with brackish water and the water tastes OK, but it was the deposits left over time on appliances such as the kettle, washing machine and dishwasher that required descaling. I put some N45-50 type magnets onto the incoming water supply and thus far the kettle which is used constantly has not needed a descale, however it could be that the old gal pipe which when I cut through a section of it was just about clogged with 70 years of crud which I replaced with copper, this may the reason that since the pipe is new there is not much lime scale in the water and the magnets may be useless. Only time will tell if it is the new pipe or a combination of high strength magnets and new pipe which has slowed down the scaling.

  3. #13
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    I liked this article: Magnetic Water Treatment

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan DCNT View Post
    Possibly stupid question: is hard water a health concern or more of just a nuisance due to the lime build-up?
    Hard water reduces the life of machines that use water: dishwashers, laundry machines, espresso machines, even sinks.

    Physically, all it will do is make your skin flakey (hair areas mostly), but it's not unhealthy as far as I'm aware. It just looks like you always have dandruff when you don't.
    Starting Strength Indianapolis is up and running. Sign up for a free 30-minute coaching session.
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn Ammons View Post
    I liked this article: Magnetic Water Treatment
    Yep. Bullshit. The attempt to seem based in physics/chemistry while failing to explain the effect is a dead giveaway.

    Ionic compounds such as calcium carbonate are not suspended in water. Their individual ions are dissolved and are a great distance from one another relatively speaking. It is only upon evaporation or super-saturation (temperature or pH changes following complete dissolution) that these ions begin to get close enough to one another for their bond to overcome to ionic strength of the water molecules and therefore precipitate out of solution.

    So the idea that these compounds are floating around and aligned to form one macromolecular structure over another really doesn't make any sense because these structures are not actually forming until their solubility starts to change. What is (mildly) plausible is that the magnetic field might temporarily separate the ions according to charge, but as soon as the application of that field is stopped, the charge gradient that is created will dissipate, i.e., the ions will migrate back to locations that make the water electrically neutral.

    Also note that in the tests performed in the paper and on that webpage, any aggressive boiling will likely agitate the mixture enough to make it uniform, negating any effect of separating ions. And a more moderate boiling would probably require so much time to evaporate the solvent that the effect I mention above would also likely be fairly complete.

    Any suspended solids will also act as nucleation sites for crystallization to occur in one pattern over another. There are just too many variables here to consider.

    Quote Originally Posted by wal View Post
    it could be that the old gal pipe which when I cut through a section of it was just about clogged with 70 years of crud which I replaced with copper, this may the reason that since the pipe is new there is not much lime scale in the water and the magnets may be useless.
    This is the much more likely explanation.

  6. #16
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    So, you changed two variables (got a new pipe, added magnets) and you're attributing the outcome in water quality to the magnets instead of the new pipe. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenn Ammons View Post
    I liked this article: Magnetic Water Treatment
    So the people selling magnets are telling you that magnets work. Go figure.

  7. #17
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    Magnets, spinning discs, perpetual motion, and structured water…

    What Scientists Say About Structured Water | The Wellness Enterprise

    It’d make for a fun podcast.

  8. #18
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    energy polariser.

    Wal may remember, for everyone else, an exercise in ruining your reputation with quackery.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phill View Post
    energy polariser.

    Wal may remember, for everyone else, an exercise in ruining your reputation with quackery.
    Energy Polariser is what was sold years ago to align the molecules in your race car engine, some folk got caught with that one. Currently is it is that we can power our country with windmills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    So, you changed two variables (got a new pipe, added magnets) and you're attributing the outcome in water quality to the magnets instead of the new pipe. Why? So the people selling magnets are telling you that magnets work. Go figure.
    No, I think it is the new copper pipe, the old gal pipe when I cut through a section the inside diameter was reduced, nearly clogged with 70 years of lime scale, however a local plumber here invented what he calls is a passive water softener which is an inline device with an internal fluted bronze turbulator that is grounded which is supposed to soften hard water, but does not remove the actual minerals, the proof being if you wash your car with this device connected to your water supply you don't get water spots on the paint, but it cost $1000 to install. There is little proof that it works, so I just got a bunch of magnets from old hard drives and placed them on the pipe to see what would happen and so far for 8 months I have not descaled any appliance, but the water is still hard when I tested it. So maybe magnets work, but it is probably the new pipe.

  10. #20
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    starting strength coach development program
    Take off the magnets and see what happens.

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