starting strength gym
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 49

Thread: High Volume for Hypertrophy?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    53,393

    Default

    • starting strength seminar april 2024
    • starting strength seminar jume 2024
    • starting strength seminar august 2024
    Quote Originally Posted by MAD9692 View Post
    Fool.
    Don't call Shiva a fool. Makes you look stupid.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Portola Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,250

    Default

    Wow. I didn't expect to cause so much controversy with my pre-season endurance training approach. Just to be clear these are bare-bar 45 lb squats, working my way up from 40x2 to 60x2 before the season starts. Once I'm skiing every couple of weeks I don't do them anymore. Also to be clear I'm not very strong as I didn't start lifting seriously until I was 61 years old. I'm now 72. I attribute the fact that I can go skiing at all to my 5x3 bar-bell squat and 5x1 deadlift training. I just do the high rep stuff to get my muscles ready for 10 minutes of continuous contractions going down the ski slope. I'm sure other modalities of training for endurance would work fine, I'm just used to squats and it simulates what's going to happen to my legs, hips and back on the ski slope pretty well.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    657

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MAD9692 View Post
    Have you ever done the 20 rep squat routine? I've done it and I'm a lot better of a person for the rest of my life due to its completion. The successful completion of the routine results in zero strength gains.
    Iíve done 20-rep squats. They are hard but compared to, say, a marathon, theyíre not the pure, profound mental transformation you imagine. You just have to squat with purposely inconsistent form, alternating between closed hip and knee angles, relaxing muscles as necessary, ignoring bracing habits learned under heavy loads. Yet another reason why they are a poor choice for most people.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,040

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene61 View Post
    Wow. I didn't expect to cause so much controversy with my pre-season endurance training approach. Just to be clear these are bare-bar 45 lb squats, working my way up from 40x2 to 60x2 before the season starts. Once I'm skiing every couple of weeks I don't do them anymore. Also to be clear I'm not very strong as I didn't start lifting seriously until I was 61 years old. I'm now 72. I attribute the fact that I can go skiing at all to my 5x3 bar-bell squat and 5x1 deadlift training. I just do the high rep stuff to get my muscles ready for 10 minutes of continuous contractions going down the ski slope. I'm sure other modalities of training for endurance would work fine, I'm just used to squats and it simulates what's going to happen to my legs, hips and back on the ski slope pretty well.
    Well done sir.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    520

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by heinz83 View Post
    What did the cavemen do for conditioning? We know they lifted rocks and did pullups on tree branches
    We know that? What, from the cave painting series, Thog's Encyclopedia of Primitive Bodybuilding?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAD9692 View Post
    Fool. What it won't do is provide any strength or size gains. To say it won't help with conditioning is retarded. Even it doesn't help him with his skiing (which I don't think it will) he's a better person for trying something very hard and figuring it out on his own.

    Have you ever done the 20 rep squat routine? I've done it and I'm a lot better of a person for the rest of my life due to its completion. The successful completion of the routine results in zero strength gains. You'll get size from it but the size increase will go away a few weeks after you're done with the program. You would probably think it was a waste of time because it didn't result into something you can package and sell. What the 20 rep squat program primarily does is let you know whether or not you are a pussy. That's it. A secondary benefit that erodes in as much time as the gainz do, is it improves your conditioning, significantly.
    No one has argued that the 20-rep squat stuff isn't difficult, or that pushing through adversity can build self-knowledge and character. Then again, those of us who've Done The Program and become strong have already done something very hard, have already learned to figure things out on our own, and already know we are not pussies.

    And those of us who continue to train protect those benefits from that erosion over time, something inherently unavailable in the 20-rep squat program.

    Quote Originally Posted by MAD9692 View Post
    What, dude? He's not interested in bodybuilding or group fitness. He's trying the high rep squats to see if it helps his conditioning for recreational skiing. Also, how does putting a Prowler/Rower/Treadmill in your garage has more of a space efficiency than just using your power rack?
    Conditioning has a novice effect, too. Sticking with anything that challenges those energy systems give a noticeable improvement within a couple of weeks. But just like with strength, that doesn't mean that the "anything" that gives novice gains is the best way to get conditioning gains and improve them past the initial phase. The issues with high-rep, low-weight squats are: 1) It's a little bit of lifting, and a little bit of conditioning, but not really enough of either, and 2) It inherently introduces risk of all the injuries and other problems that give squats a bad name with the general public.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva Kaul View Post
    I’ve done 20-rep squats. They are hard but compared to, say, a marathon, they’re not the pure, profound mental transformation you imagine. You just have to squat with purposely inconsistent form, alternating between closed hip and knee angles, relaxing muscles as necessary, ignoring bracing habits learned under heavy loads. Yet another reason why they are a poor choice for most people.
    Excellent observation, Shiva. When I was young and stupider, enduring long periods in the horse stance and such garbage in martial arts classes, I similarly learned to rotate tension between different muscle groups to hold static positions for longer, especially during rank tests and other silliness. I didn't make me stronger past what I now know were the novice gains period. Now that you mention this, I realize I did the same thing when I tried the fabled 20-rep squats. Actually heavy fives, triples, doubles, and singles remove this option by requiring optimal force production.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    657

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Donaldson View Post
    Excellent observation, Shiva. When I was young and stupider, enduring long periods in the horse stance and such garbage in martial arts classes, I similarly learned to rotate tension between different muscle groups to hold static positions for longer, especially during rank tests and other silliness. I didn't make me stronger past what I now know were the novice gains period. Now that you mention this, I realize I did the same thing when I tried the fabled 20-rep squats. Actually heavy fives, triples, doubles, and singles remove this option by requiring optimal force production.
    Mat Fraser, the longtime CrossFit champion, would practice jumping rope with both supine and (bizarrely) prone grips. This allowed him to strategically shift stress around his arms and shoulders, as demanded by the workout.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,040

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Donaldson View Post
    And those of us who continue to train protect those benefits from that erosion over time, something inherently unavailable in the 20-rep squat program. .
    Genius. You do know the 20 rep program is only a 6 week program, right? Once done correctly, I assure you its something you'll never forget. Also, if you can't end it with 315x20 there's no point in doing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Donaldson View Post
    The issues with high-rep, low-weight squats are: 1) It's a little bit of lifting, and a little bit of conditioning, but not really enough of either, and 2) It inherently introduces risk of all the injuries and other problems that give squats a bad name with the general public. .
    The issue with high rep, low weight squats are that they don't make you any bigger or stronger and they are pretty useless in general. To say however, that they wouldn't improve your conditioning, is another form of stupidity. The skier has already explained its use and application with success. Sorry, his experience has value, and your keyboard assumptions can't change his experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Donaldson View Post
    When I was young and stupider, enduring long periods in the horse stance and such garbage in martial arts classes, I similarly learned to rotate tension between different muscle groups to hold static positions for longer, especially during rank tests and other silliness. I didn't make me stronger past what I now know were the novice gains period. .
    You thought joining Kempo and standing in a horse stance gave you novice gains?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Donaldson View Post
    Now that you mention this, I realize I did the same thing when I tried the fabled 20-rep squats. Actually heavy fives, triples, doubles, and singles remove this option by requiring optimal force production.
    The 20 rep squat program doesn't make you stronger. 5's do. Everyone knows this. The 20 rep squat program is to be done after NLP/TM, etc. as a way to fuck around and try some crazy shit and see how far you can go. It's a one off. It doesn't produce any results other than letting you know that you would rather die than miss a rep.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    53,393

    Default

    And don't be nasty to Jason either.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,040

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    And don't be nasty to Jason either.
    Fine. But I'm right about everything I have written. Who the hell are these ppl anyway? Bring back fluxboy.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Posts
    535

    Default

    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by MAD9692 View Post
    The issue with high rep, low weight squats are that they don't make you any bigger or stronger and they are pretty useless in general. To say however, that they wouldn't improve your conditioning, is another form of stupidity. The skier has already explained its use and application with success. Sorry, his experience has value, and your keyboard assumptions can't change his experience.
    I think the larger point they're making is that using one of the primary barbell lifts as conditioning workout is not only inefficient, but also possibly counterproductive due to the fact that using the lift in such a way will likely lead to poor technique which could carry over when performing the lift for strength training purposes.

    Also (and this is not intended as a slight at all) but if squatting the empty bar for 40 reps is sufficiently challenging, I would argue one would be better served to get their squat numbers up.

    And trying to mimic ski runs with empty bar squats falls a bit into the trap of trying to replicate sporting movements in the gym, and is counterintuitive to the 2 factor model.

    Lastly, using the caveat "it works for them" is fine, but the Starting Strength paradigm is to derive best practices through analysis and refinement from trial and error over a broad spectrum, and not necessarily use outliers as examples of how to implement a training stimulus.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •