starting strength gym
Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 49

Thread: High Volume for Hypertrophy?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Portola Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,250

    Default High Volume for Hypertrophy?

    • starting strength seminar april 2024
    • starting strength seminar jume 2024
    • starting strength seminar august 2024
    Rip,

    A common theme of Starting Strength Radio is the need for "Fives" for efficient development of muscle size. The "Haters" often question this, quoting the "common wisdom" that 12-20 reps per set is for hypertrophy. Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, a professor at Lehman College, CUNY, in the Bronx, New York, claims here:

    Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: Resistance Training for Time Efficiency, Body Composition & Maximum Hypertrophy

    that according to his research the number of reps per set doesn't matter, all variations of reps per set give the same hypertrophy, "as long as the set is taken to within 1 or 2 reps of failure. " (Italics mine)

    Let's do a hypothetical. Suppose he is right, and you can get as much muscle growth as fast with sets of 20 taken almost to failure as with sets of 5 taken almost to failure.

    Dr Schoenfeld admits sets of 20 are hard!.... You think? You all, on this forum, know just how hard a set of 20 is! Its murder. Even if he is right, no novice program built on sets of 20 taken to failure could be effectively implemented as the poor novices wouldn't be able to stand it. The only people who can deal with sets of 20 on an on-going basis are body builders who are so crazy they like pain.

    Its not only the pain of such a program that makes it untenable, its the time commitment. Sets of 20 are interminable and you better be resting 10-15 minutes between sets. A 90 minute workout with "Fives" turns into a 3 hour workout with 20s. Again, the body builders who like spending all day in the gym are fine with this, but not your typical hard working normal person.

    Not only are "Fives" more efficient, they are actually doable by real people, as you have proven with thousands of folks over decades, getting them strong. I'm one of them and very thankful for the efficiency and effectiveness. Thanks!

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    53,404

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene61 View Post
    A common theme of Starting Strength Radio is the need for "Fives" for efficient development of muscle size. The "Haters" often question this, quoting the "common wisdom" that 12-20 reps per set is for hypertrophy. Dr. Brad Schoenfeld, a professor at Lehman College, CUNY, in the Bronx, New York, claims here:

    Brad Schoenfeld, PhD: Resistance Training for Time Efficiency, Body Composition & Maximum Hypertrophy

    that according to his research the number of reps per set doesn't matter, all variations of reps per set give the same hypertrophy, "as long as the set is taken to within 1 or 2 reps of failure. " (Italics mine)

    Let's do a hypothetical. Suppose he is right, and you can get as much muscle growth as fast with sets of 20 taken almost to failure as with sets of 5 taken almost to failure.
    Dr. Schoenfeld is wrong. It happens.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    523

    Default

    I get your point, Gene - you're granting Dr. Schoenfeld's assertion, and showing that lower reps still win out for other reasons, even if he's right. (Which he's not...)

    I'll add this: I really appreciated hearing Rip point out that doing sets of 10, 12, 15, etc. becomes more an exercise in managing boredom than it is building strength.

    I have felt a great many things during heavy sets of 5, but boredom has never been one of them.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2,311

    Default

    What about a set of 40? Does that work just as well too?

    And how do you even take a very high rep set "almost to failure"? By just barely escaping death?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anticausal View Post
    What about a set of 40? Does that work just as well too?
    Apparently not if you can do two more.

    If the premise that rep range doesn’t matter so long as failure is imminent were true, we’d see body weight folks just as jacked as the biggest bodybuilders since the only way to incrementally load body weight is to add more reps. So they’d theoretically always be working up to the maximum number of repetitions they could handle.

    Any examples?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2021
    Posts
    523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Schexnayder View Post
    If the premise that rep range doesn’t matter so long as failure is imminent were true, we’d see body weight folks just as jacked as the biggest bodybuilders since the only way to incrementally load body weight is to add more reps. So they’d theoretically always be working up to the maximum number of repetitions they could handle.
    This is a really good point, Eric.

    I suddenly understand why my boot camp platoon all graduated super swole...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    2,393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anticausal View Post
    What about a set of 40? Does that work just as well too?

    And how do you even take a very high rep set "almost to failure"? By just barely escaping death?
    More importantly, would this make the RPE count go up to 40?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Portola Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,250

    Default

    I use sets of 40-60 x2 of light squats to get ready for ski season. I get no strength gains and no hypertrophy. What I get is the endurance to get down a long “black” run without too much thigh burn early in the season. I still do my 5’s on lift days. Of course skiing itself is the best training for skiing, but you can’t ski before the snow falls.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    658

    Default

    Why not use a prowler, rower, airbike, ski erg, or treadmill? Repurposing strength equipment for conditioning is such false economy.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2020
    Posts
    388

    Default

    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Gene61 View Post
    I use sets of 40-60 x2 of light squats to get ready for ski season. I get no strength gains and no hypertrophy. What I get is the endurance to get down a long “black” run without too much thigh burn early in the season. I still do my 5’s on lift days. Of course skiing itself is the best training for skiing, but you can’t ski before the snow falls.
    I guess if you don’t ski 5-7 days a week, skiing yourself into shape isn’t an option.

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •