Timing of Whey Protein and BCAAs

[Jeff Erickson]

My question is about the timing of taking protein and BCAAs. I have read a number of posts on this forum and come away confused on timing. I have read that if you have too much protein in one sitting, your body cannot make use of all of it and some goes to waste. Spreading it out every couple hours is better. Based on that I have been having a protein shake mid morning and mid afternoon (in between meals) and another before bed. That seemed to work fine. Then I read up on BCAAs and decided I should take them, too. However, I read that they should NOT be taken with protein (or perhaps any food?) or their effect will be limited. And that taking them periodically throughout the day is best. That implies taking BCAAs in-between meals but not at the same time as the protein shake. There are not enough hours in the day to spread my BCAA and protein consumption out like that! So which approach should I take? Or do I have some of the facts wrong?

If there is no such thing as too much protein in any one sitting, then I can just finish each meal with a protein shake and spread BCAAs out in between meals. I typically lift in the evening after dinner. I can take BCAAs right before then, too, after digesting dinner a bit. If too much protein in one sitting is a thing then what do I do?

I saw one of your posts expressing skepticism about BCAAs. I haven't dismissed that point of view but am wondering what your advice is if we start with the assumption that BCAAs will help.

As background in case it matters: I am 62 and a year into lifting. Karl is my SSOC coach. I am trying to up my game on protein to see if I can make better progress. I get most of my non-shake protein from red meat, milk, and Greek yogurt. I can handle putting on weight if I do it slowly so my belly doesn't expand faster than reasonable. I am 5'10" and 182 pounds (up 30 pounds on SS).

Thanks!

[Robert Santana]

If you are taking whey protein and eating animal products for the bulk of your protein, which you are, then I don’t see a good reason to supplement with BCAAs other than liking the flavor. All of the protein you consume is absorbed and utilized regardless of the amount. However, not all of it will he used to synthesize muscle proteins. Remember, there are many proteins in the human body besides muscle proteins. So my advice to you is make sure you hit 200 g of protein per day with at least half of that coming from animal products and you should have no issue training provided you are well rested and lifting properly.

[JaredSterling]

I have read that if you have too much protein in one sitting, your body cannot make use of all of it and some goes to waste.

This is incorrect. It's a falsehood born of a flawed study.

As Robert said, just hit your protein requirements (200g with minimal reliance on whey) for the day and you're good.

All other concerns around timing are mere distractions.

That said, if you have the time and want to focus on unnecessary details, what is most likely true is that different types of proteins are absorbed by the body at different rates.

One review showed that whey clocks in at 8 to 10 grams absorbed per hour, casein at ~6.1 g/hr, soy at ~3.9 g/hr, and cooked egg at ~2.9 g/hr.

Here's the nitty gritty: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16779921

[Robert Santana]

Thanks for sharing that Jared. It has led people to a place where they worry less about problems in their training and more about minute details about protein timing.

[nzafi]

When you say coming from animal products I am assuming you are including dairy also, correct?

Along these lines, I also have a question about BCAAs. I understand the logic of them being a waste provided you are eating a healthy diet with everything you need, but if you work out fasted (I work out at 6am) I am assuming they are worthwhile? I know many folks on here take a protein shake in the morning before working out but I don't really rely on protein shakes as they tend to upset my stomach. I aim to ~200g of protein a day just by eating. My biggest concern is muscle breakdown when working out fasted.

[Robert Santana]

I can see a valid argument in this context. Still, with a sufficient surplus any benefit would still be marginal. So the answer is technically, yes its advantageous in reducing protein breakdowns and increasing synthesis. However, in the absence of a daily surplus and proper programming its not very important.

[Jeff LC]

If you are taking whey protein and eating animal products for the bulk of your protein, which you are, then I don’t see a good reason to supplement with BCAAs other than liking the flavor. All of the protein you consume is absorbed and utilized regardless of the amount. However, not all of it will he used to synthesize muscle proteins. Remember, there are many proteins in the human body besides muscle proteins. So my advice to you is make sure you hit 200 g of protein per day with at least half of that coming from animal products and you should have no issue training provided you are well rested and lifting properly.

does whey count as animal products? Sorry if stupid question. I sometimes just don't have my eating up to par, not getting nearly enough protein or calories, but i just eat a bunch of whey shakes made with whole milk throughout those days (2 scoops and two cups whole milk, so ~500 calories each), and i will just have like 3 or even 4 of those throughout those days, just to make sure I'm getting the minimum calories and protein. The rest of my food might just be a simple light lunch and pasta for dinner which isn't enough protein obviously.

[Robert Santana]

Whey has plenty of BCAAs. I wouldn't suggest relying primarily on it but if you have to on occasion that is fine. If you are finding that you drink more than 2 shakes per day on a regular basis then I suggest working on finding some new ways to eat actual food.

[Jeff Erickson]

Here's the nitty gritty: A review of issues of dietary protein intake in humans. - PubMed - NCBI

Jared, thanks for the link. I'll read that while resting between sets tonight. I found a related study just now, which I will also read tonight. For the time being, I'll quote from the abstract. The paper is titled "How much protein can the body use in a single meal for muscle-building? Implications for daily protein distribution"
How much protein can the body use in a single meal for muscle-building? Implications for daily protein distribution
"The preponderance of data indicate that while consumption of higher protein doses (> 20 g) results in greater AA [Amino acids] oxidation, this is not the fate for all the additional ingested AAs as some are utilized for tissue-building purposes. Based on the current evidence, we conclude that to maximize anabolism one should consume protein at a target intake of 0.4 g/kg/meal across a minimum of four meals in order to reach a minimum of 1.6 g/kg/day. Using the upper daily intake of 2.2 g/kg/day reported in the literature spread out over the same four meals would necessitate a maximum of 0.55 g/kg/meal."

All other concerns around timing are mere distractions.[/url]

I'll happily stop worrying about this! Its hard enough to hit my target on a daily basis so I'll just concentrate on that.

other than liking the flavor.

I can barely choke the stuff down!