Older skinny-fat caloric direction? Older skinny-fat caloric direction?

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Thread: Older skinny-fat caloric direction?

  1. #1
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    Default Older skinny-fat caloric direction?

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    Iím 49 years old and have been doing the NLP for about 4 weeks now. SS does a great job addressing young male lifters and eating but is a bit vague for us older guys. Iíve always been skinny and wished I had been introduced to SS in my twenties. But now, after about a year off due to injuries I have resumed working out. Iím 5í10Ē tall 190lbs with a 39Ē waist (measured at the belly button). Iím not very strong but I am still progressing with 10lb increases to squat and deadlift each session and 5 lbs in the BP and OHP. I started very light (due to the injuries) so I could focus on form and not immediately re-injure myself. Current squat is 165lbs (feels heavy), 105 BP (moderate), 205 DL (heavy), 75 ohp (moderate). Iím not sure about my body fat percentage, but my bathroom scale puts it at 20% which I think is optimistic, the navy calculator puts me at 29% but visual guides have me estimating 20-24%. So far I have been focusing on eating enough to try and maintain my weight, not surplus. I have added about 3 lbs over the last 3 weeks.

    Given that I am still progressing, what direction should I go with diet if my goal is to build muscle/strength but not continue to grow my gut?

  2. #2
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    The best thing to do is just train and hold your weight steady. Get your T levels checked and supplement if indicated. The days of chasing abs are over for the older guy because extreme leanness could mean dying for the geriatric client. At some point there are certain things we just can't do anymore.

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    Hope you don't mind me adding this Robert.

    It's a strange quirk of [my] thinking, but if I had been told to 'hold my weight steady' I'd have read that as, just keep eating as you are. I know that's not what you meant, but that's how it sounds. I've been guilty of not being strict with my diet and the result was that I got fat. Now I'm on strictly controlled portions, rather than just this calorie counting malarky-where you haphazardly and innacurately track the macros as you eat them-that fat is steadily coming off.

    I'd rather have not got fat in the first place and that's my own stupid fault for not listening properly, but it might be a timely warning for Rob to find out his maintenance calories, prioritise protein and stick to a simple, measured amount of food daily. For me that has meant having to be just as strict and focused on my diet numbers as my barbell numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nockian View Post
    Hope you don't mind me adding this Robert.

    It's a strange quirk of [my] thinking, but if I had been told to 'hold my weight steady' I'd have read that as, just keep eating as you are. I know that's not what you meant, but that's how it sounds. I've been guilty of not being strict with my diet and the result was that I got fat. Now I'm on strictly controlled portions, rather than just this calorie counting malarky-where you haphazardly and innacurately track the macros as you eat them-that fat is steadily coming off.

    I'd rather have not got fat in the first place and that's my own stupid fault for not listening properly, but it might be a timely warning for Rob to find out his maintenance calories, prioritise protein and stick to a simple, measured amount of food daily. For me that has meant having to be just as strict and focused on my diet numbers as my barbell numbers.
    Advice on body composition goals are not the same as advice on diet quality.That being said, just as stated in my articles, on various podcasts, and here on this board, an older adult does not have the same energy and macronutrient needs as a younger, healthier adult. He needs more protein, and fewer calories and fewer grams of carbohydrates and fats. I understand that I haven't written a dedicated article on this topic and perhaps I should. Nonetheless, those statements have been written and spoken in several places on this website by myself, Rip, and others. There are some recipe videos in the works that may give more visual representations to what some of those food choices may look like though so stay tuned.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nockian View Post
    Hope you don't mind me adding this Robert.

    It's a strange quirk of [my] thinking, but if I had been told to 'hold my weight steady' I'd have read that as, just keep eating as you are. I know that's not what you meant, but that's how it sounds. I've been guilty of not being strict with my diet and the result was that I got fat. Now I'm on strictly controlled portions, rather than just this calorie counting malarky-where you haphazardly and innacurately track the macros as you eat them-that fat is steadily coming off.

    I'd rather have not got fat in the first place and that's my own stupid fault for not listening properly, but it might be a timely warning for Rob to find out his maintenance calories, prioritise protein and stick to a simple, measured amount of food daily. For me that has meant having to be just as strict and focused on my diet numbers as my barbell numbers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    Advice on body composition goals are not the same as advice on diet quality.That being said, just as stated in my articles, on various podcasts, and here on this board, an older adult does not have the same energy and macronutrient needs as a younger, healthier adult. He needs more protein, and fewer calories and fewer grams of carbohydrates and fats. I understand that I haven't written a dedicated article on this topic and perhaps I should. Nonetheless, those statements have been written and spoken in several places on this website by myself, Rip, and others. There are some recipe videos in the works that may give more visual representations to what some of those food choices may look like though so stay tuned.
    Or, you could just read what Santana wrote and not change it in your head. "Hold your weight steady" does not mean "Hold your diet steady." Holding your weight steady will allow and probably require your diet to change as your training changes. Weigh yourself every morning and make adjustments to your diet according to the trend you find.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jfsully View Post
    Or, you could just read what Santana wrote and not change it in your head. "Hold your weight steady" does not mean "Hold your diet steady." Holding your weight steady will allow and probably require your diet to change as your training changes. Weigh yourself every morning and make adjustments to your diet according to the trend you find.
    Don't be surprised by readers bias - sometimes we read what we want to see. I can go back through the books and there is the information staring me boldly in the face, but only after the fact. I can only assume I missed it because I'm essentially lazy and diet planning doesn't appeal as much as learning to get under the bar. One of these is a novelty, the other is not and God knows I do love novelty. :-)

    Since my progress had slowed, then I had to start getting more serious-I noticed I wasn't actually a ton of muscle with a bit of fat, but quite a bit of fat with some muscle. Suddenly diet became more of an issue.

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    Thanks Robert. I do appreciate its been written about many times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    Advice on body composition goals are not the same as advice on diet quality.That being said, just as stated in my articles, on various podcasts, and here on this board, an older adult does not have the same energy and macronutrient needs as a younger, healthier adult. He needs more protein, and fewer calories and fewer grams of carbohydrates and fats. I understand that I haven't written a dedicated article on this topic and perhaps I should. Nonetheless, those statements have been written and spoken in several places on this website by myself, Rip, and others. There are some recipe videos in the works that may give more visual representations to what some of those food choices may look like though so stay tuned.
    Starting strength cookbook?!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    The days of chasing abs are over for the older guy because extreme leanness could mean dying for the geriatric client.
    Could you maybe elaborate on this a little please? My understanding of the correlation of low bodyweight and mortality in the elderly was due in part to survivor bias, in which the a large proportion of the obese and overweight die before they reach old age, and partly due to lower body weight in the elderly more likely being the result of wasting diseases such as cancer.

    Is there evidence that leanness achieved through training increases mortality in the elderly?

    I guess we'd need to clarify what waist measurement you'd class as "extreme" leanness first. At 49 but 39" waist circumference, I'd like to think the OP has more than enough time to get comfortably under the 37" cutoff for increased risk, without worrying about being too lean at an advanced age?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrflibble View Post
    Could you maybe elaborate on this a little please? My understanding of the correlation of low bodyweight and mortality in the elderly was due in part to survivor bias, in which the a large proportion of the obese and overweight die before they reach old age, and partly due to lower body weight in the elderly more likely being the result of wasting diseases such as cancer.

    Is there evidence that leanness achieved through training increases mortality in the elderly?

    I guess we'd need to clarify what waist measurement you'd class as "extreme" leanness first. At 49 but 39" waist circumference, I'd like to think the OP has more than enough time to get comfortably under the 37" cutoff for increased risk, without worrying about being too lean at an advanced age?
    The numbers you are referencing are hardly abs. If he wants to drop a few inches that's fine but attempting to get to low bodyfat is probably not a good idea for most.

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