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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    Were you fasted when you got these done? If so how long and what was your last meal the day before? Were you increasingly sedentary during the lockdown compared to before the lockdown? Was that a direct LDL or estimated?

    I don't think that we have enough data to suggest that your theory is in fact what is happening. No need for that complexity yet.
    From my test results: "LDL-C is now calculated using the Martin-Hopkins
    calculation, which is a validated novel method providing
    better accuracy than the Friedewald equation in the
    estimation of LDL-C."

    Yes I was fasted. My last meal was probably a stir-fry with chicken and vegetables over rice, with some 55% cacao chocolate for dessert, but I didn't make a note of it nor of the time because I was told just not to eat that morning before the test (I did have black coffee, which they said was ok). I'm increasingly sedentary in that I am not barbell training right now; I am running stairs for exercise, about 2 days on/1 day off.

    I realize this may be too vague to help much.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Lipids are always good values upon first inspection, but testosterone fluctuates. I refuse to believe you're this dense. Please explain.
    Ok. Lipid numbers going up suggests that his lipid numbers are going up. It is better for lipid numbers not to get too high. This should be addressed, at a minimum with a conversation with the doctor who ordered the numbers and whose job it is to interpret them. The answer might be “well, you weren’t fasting. Tune up your sleep, exercise, and diet and we’ll check them again in 6 months.” If you’re not going to address these numbers, you shouldn’t check them.

    My comment about testosterone fluctuating was aimed at his worry that something “weird” is going on because his total testosterone went up compared to 7 years ago. My point was that that may not represent a real increase.

    The difference between the two is that we have massive amounts of data correlating lipids with cardiovascular disease. So assuming the lipids were tested properly, I wouldn’t ignore that possible trend, especially as your numbers approach the high-risk levels in the setting of abdominal obesity. Testosterone looking higher 7 years later doesn’t convince me that testosterone is actually higher, and we know that testosterone numbers don’t correlate very well with low-t symptoms.

    Whether I am dense or not: not for me to say. None of us is a good judge of our own density.

    Quote Originally Posted by tompaynter View Post
    Yeah, I am pretty much just hoping to get some good questions to ask my doctor--or more likely, a specialist.

    I know that cholesterol and testosterone are connected in that cholesterol is a building block for T. Based on reading Jay Campbell's book and my liberal arts education, I am wondering if something like this is going on: my T is either over-aromatizing or overly bound up so that I have little free T. My body is trying to compensate for the low free T by producing more T overall, and by producing more cholesterol. In other words, my body is trying to compensate for low output (free T) by increasing the inputs (total T, cholesterol). This is obviously a wild-ass guess, but it does seem like the kind of biological feedback loop that can happen.
    Did your free T actually go down?

    Usually, over time, men’s T goes down and lipids go up. You might think they are causally related, and they might be (this is unclear and complicated), but then you might think that taking TRT would improve lipid profiles or cardiovascular outcomes, and so far that does not seem to be the case.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by tompaynter View Post
    (I did have black coffee, which they said was ok).
    My new doc said the same thing, then panicked when my numbers were similar to yours (on one blood draw out of many, well outside my standard deviation on each test element) . She wanted to push statins based on family history. I did some reading instead. We had been using a french press (unfiltered) for about 10 years, yet apparently it has been known for 30 some odd years that unfiltered coffee may increase your serum cholesterol (relevant article here). We switched to a standard coffee maker with paper filters and by the next test, all of the numbers were well within the currently acceptable ranges.

    So if you're drinking unfiltered, switch to filtered and see if that helps.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Anders View Post
    My new doc said the same thing, then panicked when my numbers were similar to yours (on one blood draw out of many, well outside my standard deviation on each test element) . She wanted to push statins based on family history. I did some reading instead. We had been using a french press (unfiltered) for about 10 years, yet apparently it has been known for 30 some odd years that unfiltered coffee may increase your serum cholesterol (relevant article here). We switched to a standard coffee maker with paper filters and by the next test, all of the numbers were well within the currently acceptable ranges.

    So if you're drinking unfiltered, switch to filtered and see if that helps.
    Do you realize that they lack the capability to measure this in a meaningful way?

  5. #15
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    I have consistently had high cholesterol for the past 2 years with high T and difficultly controlling weight. No one in my family on both sides, even multiple times removed, has ever had coronary artery disease. As has been said I am trying to find the root cause before going with statins because of the potential side effects and some data that suggests that they do not improve outcomes for most people. If you are concerned about coronary artery disease you can have a coronary calcium scan done of your heart. This score is directly correlated to the number of plaques in the heart and that score is then directly related to your potential for heart attack. You can also have a particle size study done of your cholesterol. Large particle LDL is typically not correlated with adverse events and may be protective. You should find a knowledgeable person to interpret.

    There are alot of things that can be easily resolved that may cause your cholesterol to go askew. Two that I have had some limited success with are apnea treatment and thyroid medication. To really get to the root cause you should find a wellness physician or life extension practice. These people will test all your hormones and try to develop a treatment that will bring you back in line. They are also flexible in working with you by ordering any tests you might want. Costs are always out of pocket.

    If you just want to lower cholesterol without medication you can use Amla, Emblica officinalis Supplement — Health Benefits, Dosage, Side Effects | Examine.com, Given your levels a teaspoon a day will get you back around 200 and will not lower your HDL. When I used it I did not notice any side effects, but it does not tell you why your cholesterol came up and it will not solve your other issues.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    Do you realize that they lack the capability to measure this in a meaningful way?
    Yep. That seems to be the case with so many of the tests that are used as definitive decision points for pushing pills.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    Do you realize that they lack the capability to measure this in a meaningful way?
    To measure which exactly? What is it that they can't measure in a meaningful way?

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    Do you realize that they lack the capability to measure this in a meaningful way?

    Robert, could you please clarify? Measure what in a meaningful way?

    This is the first I've heard of french press coffee increasing cholesterol. Sounds crazy, but what do I know. I do make french press coffee every morning though, so... now I'm curious.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erich Weidner View Post
    Robert, could you please clarify? Measure what in a meaningful way?

    This is the first I've heard of french press coffee increasing cholesterol. Sounds crazy, but what do I know. I do make french press coffee every morning though, so... now I'm curious.
    Think this through Erich. What are they actually measuring? Lipids, which fluctuate and are sensitive to diet and activity, both of which they cannot meaningfully measure especially diet. I don't need to do a meta analysis to see the obvious but one study on Norwegians showed an improvement

    Diterpenes from coffee beans decrease serum levels of lipoprotein(a) in humans: results from four randomised controlled trials - PubMed

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Santana View Post
    Think this through Erich. What are they actually measuring? Lipids, which fluctuate and are sensitive to diet and activity, both of which they cannot meaningfully measure especially diet. I don't need to do a meta analysis to see the obvious but one study on Norwegians showed an improvement

    Diterpenes from coffee beans decrease serum levels of lipoprotein(a) in humans: results from four randomised controlled trials - PubMed
    I had only seen the Norwegian study. But it is interesting. My own n=1 is that my lipids got significantly worse after 6 months of very controlled diet (high protein, fats under 60g per day, relatively high carbs) and my doctor and I were baffled at the time. I had, however, switched to a metal filter for both my drip and my pourover, which potentially may not filter these compounds as well as paper. After reading the study I decided to go back to paper filters for the hell of it.

    I'm due for another physical so it would be interesting to see if anything has changed. My diet over the past 10 months has been less strict. I'm not tracking it at the moment but fats are definitely higher most days.

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