Losing weight and choosing work weights

[Jovan Dragisic]

In between. The bench will go to 270, 275 at this bodyweight for sure. I am a faithful observer of your maxim to put weight on the bar before worrying about appearances and shit, but I will at some point have to start a controlled weight loss thing, because the amounts of food needed to maintain a 240 bodyweight do not agree with me. Deadlift is at 390, squat 365, I expect these to go to 440 and 400 with the gas I’ve got in the tank. Press 170, working towards 185. Chin ups 12, 10, 8. 5’9’’-ish.

[Jason Donaldson]

Sorry to butt in gentlemen, but just out of curiosity, I am nearing the end of my very protracted NLP. I expect to finish it with a bench press of 275ish at a bodyweight of about 240. Is it reasonable to expect to keep my bench at 225 if I drop some love handle fat to say 200-210 over a course of three to six months?

Jovan: n=1 here, of course, but for my situation, I took three months to drop from a bit over 250 to a bit under 220. To complicate it a bit, I started the cut after a brief recovery period after my first in-person meet.

At the meet, my top bench was 332. At that time, other PRs, both current, were 315 x 3 and 295 x 5.

By the end of the cut, I wasn't doing singles, was at 275 x 3 and 225 x 5.

The cut was on keto, which sapped strength, so keep that in mind. I moved over that time to mostly higher rep ranges, per Robert's advice. The keto also meant faster recovery once I went back to carbs - e.g. an immediate 20 lb jump on 5s for bench in under two weeks.

By three months post-cut, bench is up to 295 x 3 and 285 x 5. BW is up close to 230 now, but my abdominal measurement holds steady - I definitely lost a bunch of belly fat. I even got myself a new belt.

What Robert said above has been dead on for my experience. I just hit 100% on my 5s for squat this week, and it the LP continues, so it looks like I'll hit my first post-cut PR next week, which is nice. That said, the press and bench are a little behind - 97% each for fives, and definitely back to intermediate on those already.

Deadlift is another story, but it always has been for me. That's probably out of scope for this thread... LP on that stalled in low 90's, and I'm linearly progressing block pull/HDLs nicely, so that's optimistic, as well.

Not sure if that helps...

[Robert Santana]

In between. The bench will go to 270, 275 at this bodyweight for sure. I am a faithful observer of your maxim to put weight on the bar before worrying about appearances and shit, but I will at some point have to start a controlled weight loss thing, because the amounts of food needed to maintain a 240 bodyweight do not agree with me. Deadlift is at 390, squat 365, I expect these to go to 440 and 400 with the gas I’ve got in the tank. Press 170, working towards 185. Chin ups 12, 10, 8. 5’9’’-ish.

Your deadlift can probably stand to improve with those other numbers. Likely undertrained.

[Robert Santana]

Jovan: n=1 here, of course, but for my situation, I took three months to drop from a bit over 250 to a bit under 220. To complicate it a bit, I started the cut after a brief recovery period after my first in-person meet.

At the meet, my top bench was 332. At that time, other PRs, both current, were 315 x 3 and 295 x 5.

By the end of the cut, I wasn't doing singles, was at 275 x 3 and 225 x 5.

The cut was on keto, which sapped strength, so keep that in mind. I moved over that time to mostly higher rep ranges, per Robert's advice. The keto also meant faster recovery once I went back to carbs - e.g. an immediate 20 lb jump on 5s for bench in under two weeks.

By three months post-cut, bench is up to 295 x 3 and 285 x 5. BW is up close to 230 now, but my abdominal measurement holds steady - I definitely lost a bunch of belly fat. I even got myself a new belt.

What Robert said above has been dead on for my experience. I just hit 100% on my 5s for squat this week, and it the LP continues, so it looks like I'll hit my first post-cut PR next week, which is nice. That said, the press and bench are a little behind - 97% each for fives, and definitely back to intermediate on those already.

Deadlift is another story, but it always has been for me. That's probably out of scope for this thread... LP on that stalled in low 90's, and I'm linearly progressing block pull/HDLs nicely, so that's optimistic, as well.

Not sure if that helps...

What is wrong with your deadlift?

[Jason Donaldson]

What is wrong with your deadlift?

I just realized I could have been misleading. "...stalled in the low 90s" meant that, in the LP since my cut, the DL stalled at 92% of previous, vs. the other lifts LPing up into about 97% for presses with squat at 100% and still progressing. Not "stalled in the low 90-lbs range..."

That said, my deadlift weight is consistently right around my squat, and has been for some time. Disclaimer: The following is not presented as a defense of that state of affairs, just background.

5'8", c. 230 lb, 50 yr old male, training for about 5.5 yrs
I sleep with a CPAP, 7.5-9 hrs/night.
Supplementing with whey isolate to keep protein intake up.
Not on keto, aiming for good carbs and low fat, to fuel training and to drive slow gains without another 50" belly.

PRs:
SQ: 442 x 1, 410 x 3, 375 x 5
PR: 231 x 1, 205 x 1, 195 x 5
BP: 340 x 1, 315 x 3, 295 x 5
DL: 431 x 1, 415 x 3, 395 x 5

All single PRs above are from early Oct 2021, except BP, which at that time was 331.

I do not have a regular coach, but I have gotten intermittent checks from multiple SSCs (and, at this point, former ones) over my training career. My initial concern was that I was squatting high, but consistent feedback + my own video evidence shows that I'm more prone to squatting low. (First coaching check, early on, I was six inches low...fixed that, and my squat went from 5 lbs over DL to 25 in a week, which was hilarious...)

The best theory I have so far is anthropometry, especially arm length. I lock out my pull all the way up above my junk. I don't seem to have a problem getting my back set. My fingers are somewhat short and stubby. With the loss of abdominal fat, I'm finally able to DL well with a belt, so perhaps that's exacerbating the historical offset? When I fail a pull, it's just off of the deck, after a 5+ second stubborn grind.

Last fall, I got to see Phil Meggers in Omaha, who had some good tweaks on narrowing stance and grip, and he checked out my lower back set and form as pretty solid.

I am currently alternating block pulls and HDLs. Current numbers there are 405 x 5 and 325 x 8 so far.

I had a goal to pull 505 before I turned 50 in April, which didn't happen...I'd like to still get it WHILE I'm 50. I can also accept if I'm just a freak, and I'll need to squat it before I pull it... I really want to exceed the 200/300/400/500 mark. I am fully open to the possibility that I've been a moron on programming or on anything else.

[Jovan Dragisic]

Your deadlift can probably stand to improve with those other numbers. Likely undertrained.

Standard operating procedure, I started programming before I finished the book, took me far too long to read the artificially weak deadlift articles, so here we are. I am making amends. Thanks for the input gents, carry on as if I didn't interfere.

[Robert Santana]

I just realized I could have been misleading. "...stalled in the low 90s" meant that, in the LP since my cut, the DL stalled at 92% of previous, vs. the other lifts LPing up into about 97% for presses with squat at 100% and still progressing. Not "stalled in the low 90-lbs range..."

That said, my deadlift weight is consistently right around my squat, and has been for some time. Disclaimer: The following is not presented as a defense of that state of affairs, just background.

5'8", c. 230 lb, 50 yr old male, training for about 5.5 yrs
I sleep with a CPAP, 7.5-9 hrs/night.
Supplementing with whey isolate to keep protein intake up.
Not on keto, aiming for good carbs and low fat, to fuel training and to drive slow gains without another 50" belly.

PRs:
SQ: 442 x 1, 410 x 3, 375 x 5
PR: 231 x 1, 205 x 1, 195 x 5
BP: 340 x 1, 315 x 3, 295 x 5
DL: 431 x 1, 415 x 3, 395 x 5

All single PRs above are from early Oct 2021, except BP, which at that time was 331.

I do not have a regular coach, but I have gotten intermittent checks from multiple SSCs (and, at this point, former ones) over my training career. My initial concern was that I was squatting high, but consistent feedback + my own video evidence shows that I'm more prone to squatting low. (First coaching check, early on, I was six inches low...fixed that, and my squat went from 5 lbs over DL to 25 in a week, which was hilarious...)

The best theory I have so far is anthropometry, especially arm length. I lock out my pull all the way up above my junk. I don't seem to have a problem getting my back set. My fingers are somewhat short and stubby. With the loss of abdominal fat, I'm finally able to DL well with a belt, so perhaps that's exacerbating the historical offset? When I fail a pull, it's just off of the deck, after a 5+ second stubborn grind.

Last fall, I got to see Phil Meggers in Omaha, who had some good tweaks on narrowing stance and grip, and he checked out my lower back set and form as pretty solid.

I am currently alternating block pulls and HDLs. Current numbers there are 405 x 5 and 325 x 8 so far.

I had a goal to pull 505 before I turned 50 in April, which didn't happen...I'd like to still get it WHILE I'm 50. I can also accept if I'm just a freak, and I'll need to squat it before I pull it... I really want to exceed the 200/300/400/500 mark. I am fully open to the possibility that I've been a moron on programming or on anything else.

You should probably train low block pulls to get a "normal" deadlift ROM and do your haltings off a deficit. Sounds like the extra ROM is at the top of the pull if you are clearing your junk. That is equivalent to me doing a snatch grip deadlift. Need to get stronger off the floor while also not trashing your back with an extreme full ROM. I'd throw in some deficit haltings to extend the pull from the floor while not adding to the full ROM. Your top end is long enough and regular rack pulls will do plenty to take care of that. Guys with your dimensions struggle off the floor so let's make the floor longer. 1.5" deficit should be sufficient.

Standard operating procedure, I started programming before I finished the book, took me far too long to read the artificially weak deadlift articles, so here we are. I am making amends. Thanks for the input gents, carry on as if I didn't interfere.

SOP indeed. Make your amends.

[Jason Donaldson]

You should probably train low block pulls to get a "normal" deadlift ROM and do your haltings off a deficit. Sounds like the extra ROM is at the top of the pull if you are clearing your junk. That is equivalent to me doing a snatch grip deadlift. Need to get stronger off the floor while also not trashing your back with an extreme full ROM. I'd throw in some deficit haltings to extend the pull from the floor while not adding to the full ROM. Your top end is long enough and regular rack pulls will do plenty to take care of that. Guys with your dimensions struggle off the floor so let's make the floor longer. 1.5" deficit should be sufficient.

Thank you, sir - this makes perfect sense. I'd tried deficit DLs before, but stopped them because, sure enough, it wore out my lower back... Deficit HDLs sound brilliant. My next workout, I'm due for HDLs, so I'll add in the deficit. I'm looking forward to hating them.

I've been doing block pulls from 7" off the deck to start the bar just below the tibial tuberosity. All crude size jokes aside, is that about right for what you're thinking, or should I change to a lower start?

[Robert Santana]

That's a good start for lock out. The halting will force you into your quads and out of your back and moreso with the deficit.

[Jason Donaldson]

That's a good start for lock out. The halting will force you into your quads and out of your back and moreso with the deficit.

Wilco - thanks again, Coach.

Just did the 1.5" deficit haltings today, after volume squats (4-day split)... That is certainly a whole new kind of suck to embrace.