Fasting rant and a question

[NicholasAstro]

I’ve recently fallen victim to reading about the benefits of autophagy and fasting. The fasting community seems to suggest that without giving your GI tract time to rest, you increase your risk of colorectal cancer or other ailments. From what I’ve gathered, eating in the so-called “window” or refraining from any calories for a determined period of time causes the body to eliminate free radicals, ward off illness, and clear the body of damaged cells that cause disease.

These benefits appear to occur in a vacuum. The consequences and drawbacks on a lifters progress are obvious, achieving adequate musculoskeletal recovery seems to be contrary to fasting.

At face value it seems the benefits of fasting are off the table for serious lifters. Curious of other board members thoughts on the topic.

[Robert Santana]

You have to draw the line somewhere on this stuff. The better question to ask is: Under what conditions does this make any sense?

[Maybach]

Most of those "benefits" are, to be generous, mostly bullshit.

If fasting did all those things, and they are so god damned fantastic, why doesn't it help you recover any better? Why is a person who has eliminated their free radicals, cleared their bodies of damaged cells, and I suppose aligned their chakras and whitened their teeth, so much worse recovered than someone who hasn't? Those all sound real helpful for recovery. Why don't they help at all?

What the fuck is the job of a human being, exactly, if your bodily systems are arranged in such a way that using them close to the limit of their ability (strength training) requires you to accumulate damaged cells and get colorectal cancer? What the fuck is your body FOR, if not MOVING SHIT AROUND?

Fasting is not "good for you." Ask any of your ancestors. Most people who report benefits from fasting fall into one of two camps:

1) People (usually guys, let's be honest) who went from "not giving a shit about what they ate" to some fancy fasting protocol. This dramatically by definition cuts down not only the amount of food they eat, but also the amount of bad food and probably ups their intake of good food. They feel better, lose ten pounds, and start saying stupid shit about growth hormone because they don't eat during the hours their local pizza place delivers.

2) People with something to sell. These guys do a lot of calisthenics and shit and probably also "train like an athlete" to boot.

It's all horseshit man. This isn't like the carnivore or seed oil guys, who might be nutcases but at least have a few little nuggests of truth buried at the bottom. Fasting is bad for you. You are better when you have eaten. The evidence is, oh, the entirety of human existence up to this point. Pick any of it.

[NicholasAstro]

You have to draw the line somewhere on this stuff. The better question to ask is: Under what conditions does this make any sense?

As a lifter it would be entirely counterintuitive. As a non-lifter? I suppose it would be beneficial, especially if you don’t engage in any physical activity. Which feels like a fairly stark dichotomy- are you trying to gain lean muscle mass or not.

This really boils down to a wanting my cake and eating it to for me. Why wouldn’t someone want to take advantage of this if it’s true, right? I don’t think I ever would, because for me, keeping my gains are most important.

[biggah_traps]

I fast for 8-12 hours every night, and so do you unless you're getting up in the middle of the night to stuff your gob. Fasting significantly above that would mean going the best part of a whole 24 hours without food, which would put most people into a coma unless they were literally lying on their bed the whole time. It's totally impracticable.

[mikemckone]

Fasting benefits probably depend very much on who you are. Are you 21 and actively training? Or, are you in your mid 60's, like me, and trying to prevent diabetus, HBP, and other conditions from getting a foothold in your life? I've been doing the 16/8 fasting method. I lost some belly fat (and about 15 pounds). My weight training is about the same today as it was two years ago. I'm not certain if fasting is doing any good as much as it prevents me from having a late night dish of ice cream or drinking that two fingers of bourbon that ygoes straight to my visceral belly fat. So, saying it's bullshit may be right. But, I get a sense it is actually doing some good.

[MarkFera]

I'm 6 foot, 225 pounds and 60 years old. I look like I train. I was introduced to barbells when I was 14 and haven't gone more than a few weeks without training except for surgeries. My gains in high school and college were fueled by anything that tasted good. My gains post college were fueled more consciously. I ended up eating six times a day and I gave that up a year and a half ago for intermittent fasting. I fast 17 hours and get 225 grams of protein or more split between two meals. During that time, I gave up HITT cardio 3 times a week and I earned my yellow belt in Krav Maga and started BJJ in addition to strength training three times a week. My energy and weight weren't affected but my strength was until I started eating 24oz of meat for my second meal. My blood pressure dropped to 130 over 80 from 145 over 88. My resting pulse dropped from 64 to 54. I lost a few inches off my waist judging by the fit of my pants. I haven't seen a doctor since 2019. I never smoked. Anything. I stopped drinking alcohol in the late 90's. I get about 6 hours of sleep each night. I didn't think intermittent fasting would bother me and it hasn't.

[Robert Santana]

Context matters when it comes to barbell training. The more advanced you become as a lifter the more tradeoffs there are with your health. For instance, getting legitimately fat, while still not getting so fat you can't get into positions, will put a significant amount of weight on the bar because of the physics of the situation. It may also give you sleep apnea, make it difficult to tie your shoes, and reduce your overall aerobic conditioning or at best make it extremely difficult to stay aerobically conditioned. In other words, lifting becomes a sport and any competitive athlete will tell you he feels like dog shit one way or another. The lean ones complain of all sorts of joint pain and the fat ones deal with sleep apnea, high blood pressure, and other risk factors associated with being fat. The moral of the story is that beyond a certain point, lifting heavier weights becomes more of a sport and less of a health promoting activity. It is up to you the lifter to decide where you want to draw that line but there is no formula for being 100% healthy and maxing out your genetic potential.