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Thread: Does 1-on, 2-off Change One's Protein requirement

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    Default Does 1-on, 2-off Change One's Protein requirement

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    So, current theory seems to agree on the fact that after a lifting session, there is a 48 hr. protein synthesis/repair/hypertrophy period. The 1g protein/ # bodyweight seems ideal for ingestion when training every other day, or 3X+ X / week. If one is doing 1 on, 2 off, does the protein requirement fr adequate hypertrophy and muscle recovery then get reduced by some factor to compensate for the lower training frequency?

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    Quote Originally Posted by OZ-USF-UFGator View Post
    So, current theory seems to agree on the fact that after a lifting session, there is a 48 hr. protein synthesis/repair/hypertrophy period. The 1g protein/ # bodyweight seems ideal for ingestion when training every other day, or 3X+ X / week. If one is doing 1 on, 2 off, does the protein requirement fr adequate hypertrophy and muscle recovery then get reduced by some factor to compensate for the lower training frequency?
    No, but I wouldn't train every 3rd day either unless really, really, detrained.

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    The above question has probably come up before in relation to firemen and other public safety trying to work training in around work and life, so I haven't asked about it, because I also haven't searched the forums.

    But, since we're on it now:

    I am a novice. I work 48 hrs on, 24 off, in an endless cycle. I could get up at 0300 and train before the first day of work. I could train the morning of the 2nd day at work. I can absolutely train the 3rd day, the day off. Because of the call volume and lack of sleep at work, I have always assumed that the significant sleep deprivation would stunt my recovery.

    Have you encountered any clients for whom you recommended or okayed an every-3rd-day alteration to the schedule, because of poor recovery resources? I can't just decide to get more sleep; I often go 24 hrs without sleep due to call volume. My day off is often eaten up with catching up on sleep, and whatever life and family stuff I have to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    No, but I wouldn't train every 3rd day either unless really, really, detrained.
    I'm nearly 46 years old and have issues recovering from intensity squats and deadlifts. I'm still making progress on the 1 on 2 off sequence and due to work, school, family and life, doing more frequent split workouts is not feasible.

    Thanks for answering.

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    Quote Originally Posted by footrat View Post

    I am a novice. I work 48 hrs on, 24 off, in an endless cycle. I could get up at 0300 and train before the first day of work. I could train the morning of the 2nd day at work. I can absolutely train the 3rd day, the day off. Because of the call volume and lack of sleep at work, I have always assumed that the significant sleep deprivation would stunt my recovery.

    Have you encountered any clients for whom you recommended or okayed an every-3rd-day alteration to the schedule, because of poor recovery resources? I can't just decide to get more sleep; I often go 24 hrs without sleep due to call volume. My day off is often eaten up with catching up on sleep, and whatever life and family stuff I have to do.
    What's really stunting your recovery in addition to the sleep/scheduling is not training as often as you should to drive work capacity improvements. In short, you never get good at tolerating the workouts if they're very infrequent.

    Quote Originally Posted by OZ-USF-UFGator View Post
    I'm nearly 46 years old and have issues recovering from intensity squats and deadlifts. I'm still making progress on the 1 on 2 off sequence and due to work, school, family and life, doing more frequent split workouts is not feasible.

    Thanks for answering.
    Right, I get what you're saying but you're not old and though I don't know your program, I'd be interested to know what your best squat was 6 months ago and your best squat is now, in addition to body weight change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    What's really stunting your recovery in addition to the sleep/scheduling is not training as often as you should to drive work capacity improvements. In short, you never get good at tolerating the workouts if they're very infrequent.



    Right, I get what you're saying but you're not old and though I don't know your program, I'd be interested to know what your best squat was 6 months ago and your best squat is now, in addition to body weight change.
    Squat sucks...messed up hips. Ill have to use the deadlift as the metric.

    Best deadlift 6 months ago was 503. At the time, I was able to hit 325 X 11 reps conventional.

    Just before the summer, I switched from conventional to SLDL because my conventional stalled and I couldn't get it moving. My plan was to work up to 405 X 5 SLDL's and then transition back. I started at 275 which was close to an actual 5-rep max. I lineally progressed to 415 X 5 and I am not stopping as planned because I simply haven't stalled yet. My bodyweight went from 195 to 202, I think because my volume of heavy deadlifting took off and I added a day of mid intensity 10 - 15 rep sets, as I am recovering better with the extra day between workouts. I don't test 1 rep max too often but last intensity deadlift was SLDL on Saturday at 415 X 5, which was a true 5RM. The last medium SLDL deadlift was 380 (has 1,2 more but my grip failed) for a set of 10, followed by 2 sets of 5. My last SLDL "light" workout was 315 X 5 followed by a set of 335 X 16 reps. I think I had 1 more but my grip was off and I felt like my shoulder was going to dislocate so I called the set. I do have video of me pulling 415 X 5 on SLDL as well as 417 X 8 conventional (I pull conventional when I use the work gym because we don't have a squat rack and conventional gives me some quad work to go with the leg presses I have to use at work)


    In that time, I switched from high bar squat to low bar and reset to 185 and only progressed to 305 for a top set of 5, with back off sets of 265. My hips have always sucked and squats cause a TON of IT band pain that I can not solve. There is a SS coach local and I will go see him early 2018.

    I also drove my press from 180 X 1 to 180 X 3 and my pathetic bench from 210 for 5 X 5 to just this Sunday, I hit 230 for 5 X 5 on volume day and 250 3 X 3 on intensity.

    The only cleans I do are to get my presses into position and on top press sets, I use the rack.

    I use a basic HLM template, and deadlift 2 out of every 3 workouts with back extensions on non dead days. Occasionaly, I will sub back extensions for a dead day if I feel beat up but all of my assistance is done at the end in the form of finishers as to take care of conditioning, usually like this:

    Lat pulls or chins, press or bench assistance, curls, back extensions: all with no rest in-between. Then I rest 2-3 mins and repeat for 3-4 cycles.

    I know I'm not that old and by your standards, I'm not even that strong. Four years ago, I was a 150# "runner" who did "all the right things" and felt weak, frail and like shit most of the time. SS type training has been amazing for me and switching to 1 on, 2 off has allowed me to pump up deadlift volume and to be stronger than I've ever been, even for my squat. I'm going to a local SS coach early in 2018 to see if there is any way to continue squeezing gains from my squats.

    Right now, I've got my eye on 550 deadlift before year's end and there is a chance I may beat that by a few percent.

    Totally open to suggestions if you feel the programming can be tweaked. I'm not opposed to going back to 3X a week, but I think I'd have to decrease deadlift volume. My body likes deadlift volume a ton more than it does squat volume.

    Finally, I take 2g EPA/DHA, ginger, magnesium citrate and myopacks 4 X week and am diligent about getting 175+ g protein daily. Other than hips, no health issues.

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    I guess what I'm saying is that I just don't know how much stronger you've gotten.

    Your DL strength improvement is unknown based on your reply. We don't know anything about your squat. Your press seems to have gone up, though it's unclear if 180x1 was a 10/10 grinder or if you could've done a triple there (or can now do 185 x 1). Finally, I do think your bench has gotten stronger, though I'm not sure because volume numbers and repeat sets don't really tell me if you've gotten stronger either.

    So....all this to say, infrequent training that is not absolutely required for whatever reason (old/injured/life/sick, etc.) doesn't tend to work very well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    I guess what I'm saying is that I just don't know how much stronger you've gotten.

    Your DL strength improvement is unknown based on your reply. We don't know anything about your squat. Your press seems to have gone up, though it's unclear if 180x1 was a 10/10 grinder or if you could've done a triple there (or can now do 185 x 1). Finally, I do think your bench has gotten stronger, though I'm not sure because volume numbers and repeat sets don't really tell me if you've gotten stronger either.

    So....all this to say, infrequent training that is not absolutely required for whatever reason (old/injured/life/sick, etc.) doesn't tend to work very well.
    Guaranteed my press is stronger, the 180 both times were max set grinders. The bench is stronger, as prior to summer, I failed at 255 for a single max and now I hit 252.5 X 3 last week. Deadlift is WAY stronger, no doubt the sets at 365+ lift a lot quicker and easier and smoother and my 300-325 # sets have increased by 5 + reps. Saturday, I hit SLDL for 412 X 5, nearly tying my conventional X 5 deadlift max. But I am going to max out for the YMCA under 205 record in 5-6 weeks, so ill have + confirmation then. Squats....still suck but 305 X 5 last week is the strongest I've ever been at them, as 275 X 6 was my previous best.

    But to your point, I maybe this isn't the optimal rate of strength increase so I started going 3X a week with the caveat that when I feel beat up, I will take the extra 3 days.

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    Let us know how it goes!

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    My work scheduled puts me on the road occasionally for 1-2 nights per week in a hotel, so I have to take 2-day rest between sessions sometimes (doing the Bridge right now...week 5 just completed). I don't think of it as a big deal in general but in the last 2 weeks I've had to dow it more than normal such that taking 2-days between every session was the norm. I can absolutely tell the difference and it's not positive. It's harder to get back in the groove for me after 2 days off repeatedly, and progress seems to have been instantly harder to make. I think there are multiple confounders at work here though. Less focus and ability to eat/sleep well while traveling is one of them, along with the fact that regular workout sessions just enhances compliance to eating/sleeping. I tend to eat much better when I can still feel the slight fatigue in my body from yesterday's session. Then when I wake up on day 2, it's mostly gone and I am motivated to train again. When I wake up the 3rd day without having trained, I can feel laziness creeping in. Very strange.

    My 2 cents!

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