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Thread: recomping to fill out a weight class

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dalton Clark View Post
    OP,

    I understand that we are two different people, but to add onto Crookedfinger's anecdote. I am 23 years old, 210-212 pounds at 5'10" with a 37 ish inch waist around the belly button. I have gained 1-2 inches around the waist since starting starting strength but have gained a total of over 30 pounds and it isn't slowing down much. So yeah. . .from following the program and getting stronger you will be WAY over 83kg

    Dr. Feigenbaum,
    I previously thought the 110kg weight class sounded perfect for 5'10" individuals (on average. . . .), but I also heard the USAPL recently restructured to the IPF weight classes? Should someone eye-ing competitive lifting (I'm not. . .too weak and too novice) at this height shoot for the 105kg weight class now? or the 120 kg class?
    105 or 120's, probably aiming towards 120.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alchemist View Post
    I wasn't really suggesting it, but noted. I'm learning something. What is the important energy source for muscle protein synthesis then? Dr Google didn't help answer that question.
    Well, by saying someone would have plenty of fuel from cutting to fuel MPS that would imply the above. The important energy source for MPS are protein and carbohydrates with a net internal milieu that produces growth, which does not occur during cutting.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    ...with a net internal milieu....
    I know it's English but I'm not understanding what that means.

    I get why protein would be important as a pre-cursor/reagent/raw material for MPS. Is carb also a raw material in MPS? And I still don't see why the source of energy is important. Is there something in the MPS metabolic pathway that is inhibited if fatty acids are oxidized for energy?

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    You won't ever be a competitive 83kg lifter because the competitive ones squat and deadlift 600 and bench ~400. You need to gain weight to be able to train productively and get stronger. Trying to diet/do conditioning/be lean will allow you to be an 83, but not compete.

    There are no weight classes to recomp in because you can't gain muscle and lose fat at the same time.
    I am pretty meticulous about tracking my weight and waist measurements. I use an app that allows me to view my monthly averages.

    Here are my average monthly weights since starting LP in April, and switching to intermediate programming in July.

    Attachment 5891

    And here are my average monthly waist measurements.

    Attachment 5892
    Am I wrong to conclude that for the past 5 months I have been gaining muscle but losing fat?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    Well, by saying someone would have plenty of fuel from cutting to fuel MPS that would imply the above. The important energy source for MPS are protein and carbohydrates with a net internal milieu that produces growth, which does not occur during cutting.
    So, at what point is the body in a state to produce MPS? In particular, what is the point at which the conditions change. If I'm following what you are saying, even in the situation where you are maintaining weight, not gaining or losing, you cannot spur MPS. Is that correct? At what rate of weight gain do these conditions change? I'm guessing there is a spectrum where the greater the rate of weight gain, the greater the MPS capability, within reason. But maybe that's a bad assumption, seeing as there are mechanisms, such as leucine intake that is pretty close to an all or nothing effect.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jordan Feigenbaum View Post
    105 or 120's, probably aiming towards 120.



    Well, by saying someone would have plenty of fuel from cutting to fuel MPS that would imply the above. The important energy source for MPS are protein and carbohydrates with a net internal milieu that produces growth, which does not occur during cutting.

    I assume this explains why when I was a fat untrained person who dieted from 258 to 178 whilst getting stronger, I looked skinny and trim, but not muscled (I wasn't adding muscle)? Probably also explains why when I decided to gain weight, I had to change the cut of my pants, but not the size for quite a while (legs and butt) and why I could wear a size large T Shirt from 178 all the way to about 235. My Best Belt with a size 37 waist still fits on the middle hole, albeit tighter and when I was skinnier I could get it one past the middle hole. This gaining weight thing slowly while getting stronger sure is a cool thing.

  6. #16
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    Why couldn't I keep my weight relatively constant, cycling up and down let's say 5-10 lbs.? If you are training hard throughout, wouldn't this act like a bunch of mini cut and bulk cycles, adding muscle on the way up and cutting fat on the way down? In other words, why is it important to have dedicated bulk and cut periods for longer durations of multiple weeks/months, instead of trying to hover around a set weight point with shorter "cycles" of 1-2 weeks?

    For context, I am 6'1", 47 yrs. old, and before restarting my strength training I had gotten up to 238 lbs. with a wild guess of about 30% body fat, and then dieted down to 199. While running my LP I got back up to 224, but my waist stayed constant, and I gained a huge amount on all my lifts. Then my coach switched me to intermediate programming, and around the same time I got more careful with my diet to get down to around 15% bf (DEXA scan a couple weeks ago said 18.3%) and work on reducing my waist (so far from 39.5" to 37.5"), but my weight has stayed in the 220-224 lb. range. So it *appears* to me that it's working to some extent to recomp in that range. I just don't know if I need to look at cutting my diet back further to get the scale weight down to get rid of that last 3-4% of bf, or if I can continue fluctuating in that range and expect the waist and bf% to continue to drop.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by CSilv2016 View Post
    I am pretty meticulous about tracking my weight and waist measurements. I use an app that allows me to view my monthly averages.

    Here are my average monthly weights since starting LP in April, and switching to intermediate programming in July.
    Looks like you just loss fat to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by schmatt View Post
    So, at what point is the body in a state to produce MPS?
    When it has an abundance of amino acids, but that's the wrong question. The question is when does the body's net muscle protein synthesis outpace it's net protein catabolism, and that only happens when gaining weight.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alchemist View Post
    I know it's English but I'm not understanding what that means.

    I get why protein would be important as a pre-cursor/reagent/raw material for MPS. Is carb also a raw material in MPS? And I still don't see why the source of energy is important. Is there something in the MPS metabolic pathway that is inhibited if fatty acids are oxidized for energy?
    Some evidence to suggest that when there are sufficient essential amino acids in the blood stream, carbs can drive MPS. Fat doesn't and there's more muscle protein breakdown under conditions of dieting due to the entire hormonal situation, which is a significant portion of the "internal milieu".


    Quote Originally Posted by moonshot View Post
    Why couldn't I keep my weight relatively constant, cycling up and down let's say 5-10 lbs.?
    You could, but this isn't a "recomp"- this is gaining and losing weight.

    If you are training hard throughout, wouldn't this act like a bunch of mini cut and bulk cycles, adding muscle on the way up and cutting fat on the way down? In other words, why is it important to have dedicated bulk and cut periods for longer durations of multiple weeks/months, instead of trying to hover around a set weight point with shorter "cycles" of 1-2 weeks?
    Momentum and accumulated progress. You'd likely have worse training outcomes if you did it your way.

    For context, I am 6'1", 47 yrs. old, and before restarting my strength training I had gotten up to 238 lbs. with a wild guess of about 30% body fat, and then dieted down to 199. While running my LP I got back up to 224, but my waist stayed constant, and I gained a huge amount on all my lifts. Then my coach switched me to intermediate programming, and around the same time I got more careful with my diet to get down to around 15% bf (DEXA scan a couple weeks ago said 18.3%) and work on reducing my waist (so far from 39.5" to 37.5"), but my weight has stayed in the 220-224 lb. range. So it *appears* to me that it's working to some extent to recomp in that range. I just don't know if I need to look at cutting my diet back further to get the scale weight down to get rid of that last 3-4% of bf, or if I can continue fluctuating in that range and expect the waist and bf% to continue to drop.
    I'm not sure what you're asking me. You lost a bunch of weight and then gained weight. If you want to lose 3-4% body fat, you're going to have to lose weight.
    Last edited by Jordan Feigenbaum; 09-22-2017 at 03:48 PM.

  8. #18
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    [QUOTE=Jordan Feigenbaum;1608822]
    Quote Originally Posted by CSilv2016 View Post
    I am pretty meticulous about tracking my weight and waist measurements. I use an app that allows me to view my monthly averages.

    Here are my average monthly weights since starting LP in April, and switching to intermediate programming in July.

    [/SIZE]

    Looks like you just loss fat to me.

    But I gained weight. If I lost fat but gained weight, what else could the extra mass be except muscle? Especially in light of the fact that my 3x5 numbers did the following:

    Squat - 205 to 375
    Bench - 165 to 270
    Press - 100 to 175
    Deadlift - 1x5 at 235 to 3x5 at 385

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonshot View Post
    Why couldn't I keep my weight relatively constant, cycling up and down let's say 5-10 lbs.? If you are training hard throughout, wouldn't this act like a bunch of mini cut and bulk cycles, adding muscle on the way up and cutting fat on the way down? In other words, why is it important to have dedicated bulk and cut periods for longer durations of multiple weeks/months, instead of trying to hover around a set weight point with shorter "cycles" of 1-2 weeks?
    Because this is a giant pain in the ass. Can you imagine cycling your diet weekly while also having to recalculate your macros weekly instead of just having to check the box of "I'm doing my programming and gaining/losing weight?"

  10. #20
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    I have a huge appetite so my weight is slowly increasing even though I don't want it to be. I've been 'cutting' for the past few months and am still 20 pounds heavier. Probably will be 200 by the middle of next year. So basically I don't listen to people who say I should gain weight but it's gonna happen anyway because I live in America and we overeat.

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