Muscle building question

[tfranc]

This question is based on the fact that one cannot gain muscle without being in a calorie surplus.

Is there a direct connection between the exact amount of surplus calories and optimal muscle building, or is it that you could build the same amount of muscle on an extra 2500 cal per week as you could on an extra 250 per week?

Thanks hope that makes sense

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

This question is based on the fact that one cannot gain muscle without being in a calorie surplus.

Is there a direct connection between the exact amount of surplus calories and optimal muscle building, or is it that you could build the same amount of muscle on an extra 2500 cal per week as you could on an extra 250 per week?

Thanks hope that makes sense

Yes it matters, but so does context. There's an upper limit where it stops mattering, however. You can also build muscle while in calorie maintenance (based on apparently static weight) if you're an overweight or obese untrained person, but yea that's the gist.

[Rajtar]

I find that i have periods when i gain muscle when on calorie sulprus, just like children when they grow they have periods of growht and they tend to have more appetite, lets say 4 or 6 times a year. I think the same situation is with muscle hypertrophy, there are times of year when i eat 6000 kcal a day and i can build very little fat and mostly muscle, and there are times when eating the same amout of calories and training with the same intensity i notice more fat than muscle. I think once you get to know your body you will recognize your growth periods and adjust your diet appropriately. I have not seen any scientific evidence to support that, it is purely based on my own experience. I think the same could be said about fat loss, my wife was on the program for the last 6 months and she made huge gains in strength and lost 50lbs of fat, but her fat loss was in stages as well. She was on the same caloric deficit and sometimes she would not loose anything for 2 weeks and then suddenly 1 kg in what seemed like 1 day.

[tfranc]

Yes it matters, but so does context. There's an upper limit where it stops mattering, however.

Does it depend on things like the individual or the kind of training they’re doing?

You can also build muscle while in calorie maintenance (based on apparently static weight) if you're an overweight or obese untrained person, but yea that's the gist.

Huh interesting. Would it be most beneficial to gaining strength to constantly be in a caloric surplus as long as youre able if you don’t start off overweight?

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

I find that i have periods when i gain muscle when on calorie sulprus, just like children when they grow they have periods of growht and they tend to have more appetite, lets say 4 or 6 times a year. I think the same situation is with muscle hypertrophy, there are times of year when i eat 6000 kcal a day and i can build very little fat and mostly muscle, and there are times when eating the same amout of calories and training with the same intensity i notice more fat than muscle. I think once you get to know your body you will recognize your growth periods and adjust your diet appropriately. I have not seen any scientific evidence to support that, it is purely based on my own experience. I think the same could be said about fat loss, my wife was on the program for the last 6 months and she made huge gains in strength and lost 50lbs of fat, but her fat loss was in stages as well. She was on the same caloric deficit and sometimes she would not loose anything for 2 weeks and then suddenly 1 kg in what seemed like 1 day.

What in the hell are you talking about?

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Does it depend on things like the individual or the kind of training they’re doing?

Huh interesting. Would it be most beneficial to gaining strength to constantly be in a caloric surplus as long as youre able if you don’t start off overweight?

Training, current muscle mass level relative to that individual's upper limit, anabolics, etc.

And yes, I would say being in a surplus is a good idea if you're not overweight.

[StrongJohn]

Hi Jordan

Could you perhaps give a couple of typical case studies to demonstrate at what point an overweight, untrained person loses the ability to gain muscle while maintaining weight?

For instance, I am a 6ft, 34 year old male and weigh 245lb. I am currently squatting 200lbs for reps. I presume if I eat at a weight maintenance level with 250g of protein a day I can build muscle for a good while. But at what sort of strength level would I lose this ability to build muscle while maintaining weight? Could I get my squat up to 315lbs while building muscle at current bodyweight?

Or is it not possible to make generalisations like this as it varies too much for each individual? (Even if they are the same gender/height/weight/strength)

Many thanks,

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Hi Jordan

Could you perhaps give a couple of typical case studies to demonstrate at what point an overweight, untrained person loses the ability to gain muscle while maintaining weight?

For instance, I am a 6ft, 34 year old male and weigh 245lb. I am currently squatting 200lbs for reps. I presume if I eat at a weight maintenance level with 250g of protein a day I can build muscle for a good while. But at what sort of strength level would I lose this ability to build muscle while maintaining weight? Could I get my squat up to 315lbs while building muscle at current bodyweight?

Or is it not possible to make generalisations like this as it varies too much for each individual? (Even if they are the same gender/height/weight/strength)

Many thanks,

I'm not sure there's is any real inflection point where they stop having that ability- likely when they are no longer "untrained"/

I see no reason for you to gain any weight, as an aside. You're almost certainly building muscle now

[StrongJohn]

I'm not sure there's is any real inflection point where they stop having that ability- likely when they are no longer "untrained"/

I see no reason for you to gain any weight, as an aside. You're almost certainly building muscle now

Thanks very much. This is very pleasing. I had assumed that there would be an inflection point.

I am now even happier with my plan of keeping my weight at 245lbs and getting as strong as possible at that weight. Hopefully I'll transform myself from being an over-fat, weak 245lb novice to being a strong, muscular, and lean 245lb beast.

When you say it is likely when they are no longer untrained, does that basically mean when novice LP gains are exhausted? Or somewhere more advanced than that?

Thanks for everything you do on this forum. It's all very much appreciated

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

It seems reasonable that after a well-run novice LP, a person would have significantly diminished ability to do what is being discussed.