High blood pressure and SS diet

[Nockian]

I was diagnosed with hypertension 4 years ago 170/100 and began taking Rampipril at 1.25 dose. After a few months I was switched up to 2.5 to stabilise BP at below 140/80. My Dr told me that I was still low risk-non smoker, average weight, reasonable diet, low salt, no early deaths in the family from stroke, low alcohol, regular exercise-although he didn't mention stress, which I now believe to be much higher than I had realised at the time as I later had anxiety attacks.

I'm 57 5'8" and 152 lbs.

My issue is that I went on a full keto diet this May. I lost around a stone. I already walk 3 miles a day and had incorporated some weights at home and a bit of conditioning work. My BP fell alarmingly to the point I self medicated off the Ramipril. Another good result is that my frequent Migraines (classic aura vision/headache/dizziness) reduced to the point of stopping the Migraine drug I was also taking and my anxiety reduced.

So, roll forward to September and I got a gym membership and started a barbell training programme-not SS, but since two weeks ago I have converted across to SS and am making solid if not spectacular gains. I realise just how weak I really am and that this isn't a good thing going into my 60s.

I definitely want to get strong, however I don't want to go blowing up my blood pressure and getting those migraines back more frequently. I really don't know what part of the diet has worked to reduce the need for meds, I don't know of its partially a weight loss, or perhaps the low carb has sorted out my gut flora so that I'm less anxious ? I've looked at the calories numbers necessary to get big and strong and frankly it worries me. There is virtually no chance of achieving those numbers without increasing carb intake and obviously putting on a lot of bulk-and that will be an added stress in itself if I think I'm heading back into BP territory.

Unusually here, this isn't one of those 'I don't want to get fat' nor 'I'm not lifting heavy' kind of questions. I really need some help here to assure me that if I go full out SS, that I'm not going end up in a worse condition than I am now. Big and strong but with a stroke isn't how I see it going.

Thanks in advance for any advice greatfully received.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Nockian,

Thanks for the post and I'm happy to hear you're doing well.

I think that it'd be reasonable to correlate the drop in your blood pressure with your dietary change that produced weight loss. It also may have decreased sodium intake, which may have played some role if you were salt sensitive. It also appears during that time you altered your activity level. Summed together, this likely is responsible for your blood pressure improvement.

With respect to the migraines, I suspect that's likely due to other factors unrelated to blood pressure improvement.

With all that said, for productive training I would recommend 30g of starchy carbohydrates taken 60-90 min prior to workout with a meal and another 30g taken with your post workout meal. You'll have to adjust that over time to effect.

I'm not sure if there is a "full SS" diet that is actually advised for anyone outside of the skinny young male, which doesn't apply to you ya know?

Finally, being small and weak with a stroke isn't any better than being big and strong with a stroke. Low strength levels are correlated with stroke in those with a modicum of aerobic capacity (typically generated by non formal exercise activity). That said, in your instance we also need to keep blood pressure controlled. I think multiple things previously contributed to your blood pressure and now that it's under control, I wouldn't expect that any weight gain (particularly lean body mass) would increase your blood pressure.

[Nockian]

Nockian,

Thanks for the post and I'm happy to hear you're doing well.

I think that it'd be reasonable to correlate the drop in your blood pressure with your dietary change that produced weight loss. It also may have decreased sodium intake, which may have played some role if you were salt sensitive. It also appears during that time you altered your activity level. Summed together, this likely is responsible for your blood pressure improvement.

With respect to the migraines, I suspect that's likely due to other factors unrelated to blood pressure improvement.

With all that said, for productive training I would recommend 30g of starchy carbohydrates taken 60-90 min prior to workout with a meal and another 30g taken with your post workout meal. You'll have to adjust that over time to effect.

I'm not sure if there is a "full SS" diet that is actually advised for anyone outside of the skinny young male, which doesn't apply to you ya know?

Finally, being small and weak with a stroke isn't any better than being big and strong with a stroke. Low strength levels are correlated with stroke in those with a modicum of aerobic capacity (typically generated by non formal exercise activity). That said, in your instance we also need to keep blood pressure controlled. I think multiple things previously contributed to your blood pressure and now that it's under control, I wouldn't expect that any weight gain (particularly lean body mass) would increase your blood pressure.

Thanks for the reply Jordan,

I wondered if the fall in BP might be the result of the Keto diet as I know that carbs increase cellular water uptake, hence low carbs drop that water load fast-similar to reducing salt intake. I've never been a big salt eater anyway and I'm probably getting more from my morning bacon on keto than I was getting for the whole day on my previous diet.

I'm already doing whey protein plus a pint of raw milk and spoonful of heavy cream on recovery days which would presumably have dropped me out of keto and increased cellular water, as milk is carb heavy ? If so, then my BP is staying pretty regular at sub 140/80 ( supposedly on the limit of hypertension, but I'm not concerned as long as it isn't staying back up near 160/90).

What do you recommend as the best food for the starchy carbs on training days ???

I have to tell you, that to date I've been training fasted-don't tell Ripp ;-) but today I decided to have a handful of pecans and a stick of celery with 2oz of Brie cheese 1/2 an hour before going to the gym-not carbs obviously and probably too late to make any significant difference.

I have monitored my weight, which climbed from a low of 147.5 to 152 (took 2 weeks) I think as a result of drinking the raw milk/whey and cream. However, the fat monitor on my scales only peaked up 1% (from 17% to 18%) and has now settled back to 17%, so I'm definitely not putting on much fat as a result of increasing calories. Certainly prefer getting a few pounds extra muscle over a year, as the fat % will likely be in ratio anyway. As you might have gathered, my first concern isn't showing off abs.

Thanks again.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Thanks for the reply Jordan,

I wondered if the fall in BP might be the result of the Keto diet as I know that carbs increase cellular water uptake, hence low carbs drop that water load fast-similar to reducing salt intake.

This effect is transient. Subsequent adaptation eliminates it and it is attenuated without concomitant weight loss.

I've never been a big salt eater anyway and I'm probably getting more from my morning bacon on keto than I was getting for the whole day on my previous diet.

What was your previous sodium intake to current? I'd bet good money that it was significantly more prior to dietary intervention. Added salt wouldn't be the main culprit anyway.

What do you recommend as the best food for the starchy carbs on training days ???

There is no best starchy carb. I like them all. Oats being one of my favorite go to's.

I have to tell you, that to date I've been training fasted-don't tell Ripp ;-) but today I decided to have a handful of pecans and a stick of celery with 2oz of Brie cheese 1/2 an hour before going to the gym-not carbs obviously and probably too late to make any significant difference.

Both training fasted or this meal likely compromise performance. I would advise giving yourself at least a few advantages with training.

[Nockian]

This effect is transient. Subsequent adaptation eliminates it and it is attenuated without concomitant weight loss.



What was your previous sodium intake to current? I'd bet good money that it was significantly more prior to dietary intervention. Added salt wouldn't be the main culprit anyway.




There is no best starchy carb. I like them all. Oats being one of my favorite go to's.



Both training fasted or this meal likely compromise performance. I would advise giving yourself at least a few advantages with training.

Thanks for the reply, I shall take that all onboard.

In terms of salt, it's never been high. We always cooked whole food, it was just greater carbs, less vegetables and fats. Never been much of a ready meal, junk food eater. We never add salt to cooking, nor additional salt to the meal. Whole meal bread consumption, pasta, oats, potatoes and sugary stuff were higher. I now eat an awful lot of green, leafy vegetables-probably by a factor of 1000% increase.

Could you comment on the following vid regard diet, as I was following this guys recommendations to reduce BP. This is on muscle building. Quackery ?

*Not linking to quackery

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

As a general rule, don't listen to chiropractors for diet, medical, or training issues.

[Nockian]

As a general rule, don't listen to chiropractors for diet, medical, or training issues.

Funnily he basically recommends SS barbell training as the best kind of training. Not by name, but by the four lifts. He's also not big on cardio, particularly steady state, so rather in line with your own philosophy.

It was following his dietary/exercise advice that I came off BP meds and then directly lead me to discover SS- so, it isn't all bad. It would have been interesting to hear your comments on the sciency bit of the need for potassium and certain vitamin/nutrients to be present in order for muscles to absorb protein, but I respect your position as a medical professional not to answer to it. Thanks anyway.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Funnily he basically recommends SS barbell training as the best kind of training. Not by name, but by the four lifts. He's also not big on cardio, particularly steady state, so rather in line with your own philosophy.

It was following his dietary/exercise advice that I came off BP meds and then directly lead me to discover SS- so, it isn't all bad. It would have been interesting to hear your comments on the sciency bit of the need for potassium and certain vitamin/nutrients to be present in order for muscles to absorb protein, but I respect your position as a medical professional not to answer to it. Thanks anyway.

Sure, it's not all bad and I could certainly show a bunch of idiocy within the allopathic and osteopathic medical communities too. That said, it's just a general rule.

I'm also not necessarily "not big on cardio" and in general, I don't favor high intensity interval work over steady state.

As far as the need for K+ for muscles to "absorb protein", I suppose I could jump through some biochemical hoops and make that statement correct. However, it's most certainly not a reason why we should supplement with vitamins so muscles "absorb" protein better.

[Nockian]

Sure, it's not all bad and I could certainly show a bunch of idiocy within the allopathic and osteopathic medical communities too. That said, it's just a general rule.

I'm also not necessarily "not big on cardio" and in general, I don't favor high intensity interval work over steady state.

As far as the need for K+ for muscles to "absorb protein", I suppose I could jump through some biochemical hoops and make that statement correct. However, it's most certainly not a reason why we should supplement with vitamins so muscles "absorb" protein better.

I don't think he ever suggested supplementation, only that most people don't get sufficient potassium and vitamins through their diets-leafy greens etc.

Have you any interviews where you discuss steady state and HIT ? It seems that every article these days is suggesting some version of limited HIT - especially for older people, but that it's very dependent on a persons generics if they benefit. I've always preferred steady state cardio, primarily because I don't consider it exercise, but more of a therapeutic stress reliever and very enjoyable too(walking/biking).

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

I don't think he ever suggested supplementation, only that most people don't get sufficient potassium and vitamins through their diets-leafy greens etc.

It is definitely true we don't consume enough potassium per day, though the effect of this on blood pressure or other outcomes is not terribly well established (though they've tried). Vitamins though? That's fabrication.

Have you any interviews where you discuss steady state and HIT ? It seems that every article these days is suggesting some version of limited HIT - especially for older people, but that it's very dependent on a persons generics if they benefit. I've always preferred steady state cardio, primarily because I don't consider it exercise, but more of a therapeutic stress reliever and very enjoyable too(walking/biking).

I have, though I do not remember the exact episode or interview. Depending on the previous level of fitness and modality, it may be somewhat stressful- but I'd agree with you in general.