Protein, age and LP.

[Sunflower]

I had not fully appreciated how much more protein I need at 54. I've heard Rip talk about it and figured that at 150lbs that getting a minimum of 150g/day and usually well over 200 would be enough.

Starting my 7th week I began using Monster Milk for my snacks and one last shake at 8pm. I have been struggling with being able to keep my knees out while squatting and it was really holding me back; it took 3 workouts at 145 to get my knees even marginally stable.

After a week of 300+g/day I bumped up my squat to 150 last night and it went up like it was a feather. I probably had 5 sets in me and my knees stayed out effortlessly. I'm sure I can go back to 10lb increases for a while.

Stunning difference and perhaps 1.5lb of weight gain in a week.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Sunflower,

Thanks for the comment and I'm glad your LP is going better. Let's take a closer look at this, however.

You are on your 7th week of the LP. If you started at just the bar and added 5lbs per session you'd be at 150lbs right now. Where did you start?

Now, you've done 145 3 separate times, which exposes you to that stimulus 3 different times, which gets you better at performing that task and recovering from that stimulus. You've also now gained weight as a result of increasing your calories (via protein). In my opinion, as a 150lb male you absolutely do not need 300g of protein per day. It's not necessarily harmful to do so, but I think your improvement is more likely due to repeated training and weight gain than increase in protein.

[Sunflower]

Sunflower,

Thanks for the comment and I'm glad your LP is going better. Let's take a closer look at this, however.

You are on your 7th week of the LP. If you started at just the bar and added 5lbs per session you'd be at 150lbs right now. Where did you start?

Now, you've done 145 3 separate times, which exposes you to that stimulus 3 different times, which gets you better at performing that task and recovering from that stimulus. You've also now gained weight as a result of increasing your calories (via protein). In my opinion, as a 150lb male you absolutely do not need 300g of protein per day. It's not necessarily harmful to do so, but I think your improvement is more likely due to repeated training and weight gain than increase in protein.

I started at 95, which felt light and I felt like I could concentrate on form. However, the first two weeks I tried a 48 hour cycle and was miserable. I have been a cyclist since I was 10 and raced at the amateur level from 29 to 39. My external rotators didn't do an honest day's work until I started skiing at 50; my knees were caving in despite my best efforts, old knee wear and tear spots from racing were complaining and some well-honed senses about whether I was recovered or not were telling me I wasn't recovering in 48 hours. Sad!!

I switched to a 72 hour cycle at 110lbs, began making progress (and was no longer miserable) and the aches and pains went to a level that seems about right for hard exertion. I varied between 5 and 10 lb jumps according to how much form I lost on the previous workout.

Most hardcore cyclists develop a pedal stroke where the knee almost brushes the top tube on the downstroke- I suspect there is some adductor activation. As my cycling muscles come back they are completely overpowering the external rotators (and some core) so my squat is progressing at the rate of a muscle group that has succeeded at a lifetime of gym avoidance matched against some muscles that at one time looked like muscles, only smaller. I'm sure I can squat a lot more than 150 but it would not be pretty. I have been intentionally erring on the side of attempting good form rather than maximum weight additions.

The reason I suspected the additional protein was the variable that made the difference is that I've been settling for a little degradation of form on the last rep or two of the last set rather than waiting for perfect form and the last rep at 145 had some pretty dramatic knee cave on the right side- this has been typical. On Monday I crushed it on every rep at 150 and didn't really have to think about my knees at all. Perhaps you're right and it was the pause at 145 to get the form cleaned up that made the difference. This is the last set at 145:

YouTube That right knee is the one that caves, it was the one I had various issues with on the bike but its healthy now. I know I need to look at the floor- my sets at 150 went so much better with my view on the floor and I'm confident that 160 will go well tonight. Some Adidas PL 3.1's are on a boat somewhere in the Pacific. I have fractional plates.

There are other stress variables at play as well. Job is at about an 8 at the moment, I co-parent with an ex who is a narcissist (diagnosed, constant strife, teenage child attends the school in my town) and my sleep (which is often pretty good) has been poor for the last couple of months. Maybe 4 hours a night of good sleep and a couple of hours of tossing and turning. Getting into the gym is partly an effort to get a virtuous circle going w/regards to sleep and stress.

When I raced I used a Universal circuit at the Field House off season, this is my first attempt at lifting barbells. Skiing starts Saturday here in Iowa and I managed to get to the first day of skiing w/o any new injuries or aggravating a host of old ones, in a good mood, with the best legs I've started a season with and hopefully not setting too many bad movement patterns in place. As Sad!! as my LP has started out, I'm not at all discouraged and I'm looking forward to getting good at this.

If 1g/day of protein is the right amount for a guy in his 20's, what would you benchmark for a 54 year old guy who doesn't have an ideal recovery environment? I've watched dozens of videos and have a memory of somebody saying it could go as high 2g/day so that's what I set as a target.

[Jordan Feigenbaum]

Okay let's go thru this to close out the thread:

[QUOTE=Sunflower;1635044]I started at 95, which felt light and I felt like I could concentrate on form.

However, the first two weeks I tried a 48 hour cycle and was miserable

That's normal. It would get better the more you did it.

I have been a cyclist since I was 10 and raced at the amateur level from 29 to 39. My external rotators didn't do an honest day's work until I started skiing at 50; my knees were caving in despite my best efforts, old knee wear and tear spots from racing were complaining and some well-honed senses about whether I was recovered or not were telling me I wasn't recovering in 48 hours. Sad!!

We cannot "sense" when we are recovered reliably enough to alter management of training. In other words, I don't really mind if you felt shitty between training sessions. You improve recovery by training. Less training reduces recovery ability in the long term, though it may fluff it up in the short term.

I switched to a 72 hour cycle at 110lbs, began making progress (and was no longer miserable) and the aches and pains went to a level that seems about right for hard exertion. I varied between 5 and 10 lb jumps according to how much form I lost on the previous workout.

I would have done 5lb jumps for 2 sets of 5 reps 3x/wk on squat for the first two weeks, then gone up to 3 sets of 5 with 5lb jumps.

Cycling stuff...

Well, good technique is a requirement and I think one way to improve technique is to practice the lift more often rather than less often. So, with that in mind- is 2x/wk better than 3x/wk?

If 1g/day of protein is the right amount for a guy in his 20's, what would you benchmark for a 54 year old guy who doesn't have an ideal recovery environment? I've watched dozens of videos and have a memory of somebody saying it could go as high 2g/day so that's what I set as a target.

2.3-3.1g/kg of BW would be the recommendation for you, so still ~1g/lb bodyweight.