Need help/recommendation on my artificial week DL

An article was posted today on the concerns about having an artificially weak DL. Artificially Weak Deadlifts, Part 1: Perception vs Reality | Robert Santana. Unfortunately, I fall in to this category. I mistakingly did not do the program correctly in the first phase. Instead oof doing DL every session for the first 4-6 weeks....I started my SSNLP with PC from the get go, Due to this oversight, my current SQ and DL share approx the same weight. A few weeks ago, I failed reps on two consecutive DL sessions. I fixed this by (1) adding more rest time between my last warmup set and my DL work set (2) limiting my DL to once per week (3) having a light SQ day on my DL day (Wednesday). This really helped. The weight pulled off floor surprisingly much easier last two sessions after these adjustments have been made. Night and day difference. But even after this adjustment, I am still concerned about having a DL weight lag behind my SQ. FWIW, here are a few stats

42 y/o male
200# body weight
SQ - 310# (adding 5lbs per session)
DL - 290# (adding 5lbs per session)
BP - 172.5# (adding 2.5lbs per session)
OP - 116# (adding 1# per session)
PC - 160# (adding 2.5# per session)
PS - just added these, am alternating between PS and PC....started at 75#, now at 80# (adding 5lbs per session)

My program looks like this

A - Monday - squat, bench, power clean, chins

B - Wednesday - light squat, press, dead lift

A - Friday - squat, bench, power snatch, pull ups



B - Monday - squat, press, power snatch, pull ups

A - Wednesday - light squat, bench, dead lift

B - Friday - squat, press, power clean, chins


I started this advanced novice program last week (at the introduction of my light squat day). On this program, I am adding weight to my squat 2x's a week, and DL once per week. My squat is progressing at 10# per week, my DL at 5# per week. I am wondering if I should up my DL weight to 10# per week to keep it up with the squat. Additionally, should I not worry about the disproportion between my squat and dead lift? Should I de-load my squat to get in more in line with the 50-100# split as mentioned in the article. FWIW, my squats are def getting heavy.....I am wondering if keeping the dead lift ahead of the squat would help my progression on the squat. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your feedback!!

I am not a coach, but I would definitely start adding 10 lbs per session to the deadlift. I would also increase rest as needed before deadlift work set up to 10-12 minutes or longer if I felt a stall was imminent. I would consider a deload on the squat if form was beginning to break down, are you videoing and reviewing your work sets?

You are 42, started with PC's, and programmed power snatches into your SSNLP? Not sure why you are doing low intensity movements requiring a large amount of technique two times a week...you need more work and volume. Not less intensity with the PC and Power Snatch.

You are pulling 290, I will disagree with Philbert and would not add 10lbs each workout, this will probably lead to failure pretty quickly. I would add 5 lbs for a topset of five three times a week. Quick math, 15lbs a week vs 10lbs a week and your DL is greater than your squat in 4-weeks. Right?

Once this starts failing, add a mid-week light day with PC's, barbell rows, or lighter DL's. More options after this, but this should work for a couple weeks...assuming you are fulfilling the "https://startingstrength.com/article/the_first_three_questions" Starting to look like HLM or a 3-day TM?

Couple other suggestions; stop with 1lb jumps for the press. Program a top set (2.5lbs per workout) of 3 followed by two backoff sets of five at 85%.

Your bench and press should be higher, you may want to consider a four day split to get 2 x upper body days vs 1.5 upper body days on a three day program.

How do you expect to get your deadlift up over your squat by deadlifting once a week? I think you stop cleaning for 3 months and do one set of deadlifts with a 5 pound increase until you are at 375. Strap if your fingers are short.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philbert

I am not a coach, but I would definitely start adding 10 lbs per session to the deadlift. I would also increase rest as needed before deadlift work set up to 10-12 minutes or longer if I felt a stall was imminent. I would consider a deload on the squat if form was beginning to break down, are you videoing and reviewing your work sets?

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Yes, I've been taking videos of my squat sessions. I jumped 10lbs on Wednesdays Dl session. I pulled 300# for 5....however, it was broken. I had to reset and pause for rep #5. I am not too sure how long I could keep adding 10#'s to the DL at this weight. I am thinking about adding two DL days, and adding 5# each session. I am contemplating doing DL on Wed and Friday......Squatting heavy on Monday, with a light and medium day on Wed and Friday. additionally, I would de-load the squat from 310 to 250. I would continue to alt/cycle the BP and OP. On my heavy squat Monday is when I'd do PC or PS. If I could run this modification for 4-6 weeks, It would get my DL up to the 350's, and my squat back to 300, WITH the appropriate lag in the squat. I know its a setback for my squat. However, I will still continue making progress with my other lifts. Anybody else have any thoughts or suggestions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Troxell

You are 42, started with PC's, and programmed power snatches into your SSNLP? Not sure why you are doing low intensity movements requiring a large amount of technique two times a week...you need more work and volume. Not less intensity with the PC and Power Snatch.

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I fucked up the DL/PC thing from the get go. I added the PS recently....just as an alternate sub for PC. But I understand, I am pulling submax more than I am max. Even though everything Ive read has cautioned masters athletes with increasing volume, espc DL volume.....I have to agree with you, the lack of volume is why I am lagging, so I need to add more volume. I think 4-6 weeks ought to solve this issue. Thanks for the reply!

Coach Rip,

What are you're thoughts on a squat de-load, and keeping my increases proportionate on both lifts

If you deadlift 3 days/week instead of one, what happens to your volume?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe

If you deadlift 3 days/week instead of one, what happens to your volume?

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Obviously my volume increases. I understand.....I need to add more volume. I guess I’m a little confused as what I’ve read from the Asgard books advocates only DL once per week....and furthermore, much care should be taken when adding more DL volume to masters athletes like myself. I understand I’m trying to fix my fuckup of not doing the program correctly during the first phase of my LP. So would it prudent to DL 3x’s a week at 5lb jumps each session until I stall, or should I add a light DL day in the middle of the week. So I’d still DL 3x’s a week. However I’d add weight on M and F....on W I’d have a light DL. What approach would you recommend. Thanks for your response.

At 44, you're barely a masters lifter, and no more than you're deadlifting at this bodyweight you can certainly tolerate 3x/week for a few weeks. Assuming you are answering The First Three Questions | Mark Rippetoe correctly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by g4string

An article was posted today on the concerns about having an artificially weak DL. Artificially Weak Deadlifts, Part 1: Perception vs Reality | Robert Santana. Unfortunately, I fall in to this category. I mistakingly did not do the program correctly in the first phase. Instead oof doing DL every session for the first 4-6 weeks....I started my SSNLP with PC from the get go, Due to this oversight, my current SQ and DL share approx the same weight. A few weeks ago, I failed reps on two consecutive DL sessions. I fixed this by (1) adding more rest time between my last warmup set and my DL work set (2) limiting my DL to once per week (3) having a light SQ day on my DL day (Wednesday). This really helped. The weight pulled off floor surprisingly much easier last two sessions after these adjustments have been made. Night and day difference. But even after this adjustment, I am still concerned about having a DL weight lag behind my SQ. FWIW, here are a few stats

42 y/o male
200# body weight
SQ - 310# (adding 5lbs per session)
DL - 290# (adding 5lbs per session)
BP - 172.5# (adding 2.5lbs per session)
OP - 116# (adding 1# per session)
PC - 160# (adding 2.5# per session)
PS - just added these, am alternating between PS and PC....started at 75#, now at 80# (adding 5lbs per session)

My program looks like this

A - Monday - squat, bench, power clean, chins

B - Wednesday - light squat, press, dead lift

A - Friday - squat, bench, power snatch, pull ups



B - Monday - squat, press, power snatch, pull ups

A - Wednesday - light squat, bench, dead lift

B - Friday - squat, press, power clean, chins


I started this advanced novice program last week (at the introduction of my light squat day). On this program, I am adding weight to my squat 2x's a week, and DL once per week. My squat is progressing at 10# per week, my DL at 5# per week. I am wondering if I should up my DL weight to 10# per week to keep it up with the squat. Additionally, should I not worry about the disproportion between my squat and dead lift? Should I de-load my squat to get in more in line with the 50-100# split as mentioned in the article. FWIW, my squats are def getting heavy.....I am wondering if keeping the dead lift ahead of the squat would help my progression on the squat. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your feedback!!

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290 with a 310 squat sounds like either the squat is high or something is wrong. I would deload the squat and deadlift three times per week until the bar speed slows down (video it). Then every other workout, THEN once per week. By then you should be pulling well into the 300s.

Rip and Robert,

Thx for sharing your knowledge. I now have more concrete sense of direction.