Hangboard training

I'm a 35-year-old rock climber with about a year of experience in my sport. I've decided to add barbell training both for the general benefits of strength and to improve my climbing ability.

Many climbers claim that weight training is counterproductive because it will cause you to gain weight. Because I heard this, I've previously focused primarily on pull-ups and related exercises, and basically done nothing but running for legs. The idea was that I would pack strength only into the muscles I need for climbing, thereby gaining the strength I need while keeping my weight as low as possible.

I no longer think this is the right approach, but I can see why people are concerned that weight gain will hurt them: When you're unable to complete a difficult climb, it is almost always because of insufficient finger strength or endurance (or bad technique, of course). It seems to me that I can become a better climber by gaining general strength as long as I can get my finger strength growth to track (or hopefully exceed) my rate of weight gain.

The common implement that is used for improving finger strength among climbers is the hangboard. (Sorry if I'm telling you stuff you already know.) This consists of small horizontal edges that you put the fingertips on while holding the proximal interphalangeal joints at 90 degrees of flexion and then doing a dead hang.

But the common way hangboard training is programmed (generally progressing by switching to smaller edges, using only three or two fingers, or doing more sets, taking shorter breaks, hanging longer, etc.) doesn't seem ideal for gaining strength. It seems it would be better to do weighted hangs and increase the weight slowly along with the rest of the training program.

I'm wondering if anyone has experience with programming the hangboard in this way, or has insights regarding finger strength adaptation. Since there is a great deal of slow-adapting tissue involved (tendons, finger pulleys, etc.) it seems like moving slowly is a good idea. But I'm not sure how many times a week would be optimal, or how long to rest between reps and sets, or what safe jumps look like.

Any thoughts or insight you have would be greatly appreciated.

I have always wondered what happens to finger strength as the deadlift goes from untrained to 375.

Old head here. If I were you, I would seperate the two things. You get better at climbing by climbing. You get stronger by lifting progressively heavier weights. When I climbed regularly I had no idea about related training, so I just climbed more and got better. I used to do finger jam pull ups, but, had I known what a barbell was, then I would have figured that greater than body weight grip strength training would have been the way forward. Then, if I had known that, then perhaps I would have concluded that barbell training might be a more useful focus than climbing prowess.

I can still clamber up an easy rock climb today without having to practice. The problem solving, move solutions are just as tricky to my less practised older self, than they were for my more skilled younger self, but then I'm not climbing to that previous standard. However, the feel of the rock and the environment of a nice day out on a sun warmed crag are exactly the same. If you get what Im saying ? Stronger is just better, the potential negatives are massively outweighed by the positives.

I did a test at the gym to see where my grip strength on the barbell is at present after training today. I started with 45s on the bar and then lifted that with a neutral wrist with one hand. For both left and right, that was relatively easy. I added 25s, and I could just barely get that up for a short period of time with my right hand. That weight opened up my left hand, and I couldn't lift it.

So I would certainly need a stronger grip to execute a set at 375 with a double overhand grip, but my deadlift is starting out at only 275. It seems like it might be a while before my deadlift is heavy enough to cause much strength adaptation in my fingers. Doesn't it seem like some supplemental grip work could keep my grip progressing? At my current weight, I already perceive my grip strength (along with technique) as my main limitation in climbing.

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Originally Posted by Climber84

Doesn't it seem like some supplemental grip work could keep my grip progressing?

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Faster than getting your deadlift up 100 pounds? Absolutely not. Nothing makes your hands stronger faster than the deadlift. Do all the warmups with a double-overhand grip, and your work sets too if you can.

Ok, I'll give it a shot, and I'll keep everything double overhand. I'll get my deadlift up to 375, and report back on its impact on my climbing. Thanks for your time.

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Originally Posted by Climber84

Many climbers claim that weight training is counterproductive because it will cause you to gain weight. Because I heard this, I've previously focused primarily on pull-ups and related exercises, and basically done nothing but running for legs. The idea was that I would pack strength only into the muscles I need for climbing, thereby gaining the strength I need while keeping my weight as low as possible.

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I'm confused as to how you got this idea in your head. I only have a little bit of experience in climbing, but right from the beginning I was told by instructors to climb with my legs and not my arms (which strikes me as an intuitive notion regardless). Who is telling people that you don't need leg muscles to climb?

I used to climb back in my 20s.
Was pretty good too.
I am 1.90 m tall (about 6.2" I think) and back then I weighed about 73 kg. Skinny AF.
I weigh more than 100 kg now and I don't climb anymore, just lift.
Climbing is a very particular sport and very special in terms of bodyweight.
Even lean mass (even more muscle) is a burden if you weigh a lot more than you can handle on the rock. There are technical movements that just can't be performed otherwise.
You need to be strong yes, but not heavy.
The short, timed hangs the OP mentioned are the equivalent of 1RM max efforts and give you the necessary hanging strength.
If you look at the top climbers they are all lanky or skinny with big forearms and extreme hanging strength.
You must train strength neurally if that makes sense, and ideally not gain weight.
If you are serious about the sport that is.
If it's a hobby, running an LP and leaning out after could be beneficial if you lack strength and muscle completely.

All the above is just an opinion, maybe the coaches here have trained climbers and they definitely know better.
There's been a long time since I climbed and maybe things have changed.

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Originally Posted by MWM

I'm confused as to how you got this idea in your head. I only have a little bit of experience in climbing, but right from the beginning I was told by instructors to climb with my legs and not my arms (which strikes me as an intuitive notion regardless). Who is telling people that you don't need leg muscles to climb?

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Depends on the grade. Arms are usually the limiting factor once it gets technical, at lower grades it's better to search for toe holds so you don't tire the arms out, so the advice you got was good. Higher grades require a smearing friction grip with the feet to keep balance whilst the arms do the rest. Overhangs are virtually all arms/back.

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Originally Posted by MWM

I'm confused as to how you got this idea in your head. I only have a little bit of experience in climbing, but right from the beginning I was told by instructors to climb with my legs and not my arms (which strikes me as an intuitive notion regardless). Who is telling people that you don't need leg muscles to climb?

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Footwork is very important, and any time you can get yourself up the wall with your legs you do. But if you have sufficient leg strength to do a pistol squat, that's the maximum effort you'll ever exert. The only rare time where you might have your legs fail, it's always your calves. For example, one route I did was a 650-foot granite slab (meaning it's a bit less than vertical). There were very few hand holds and the feet were pretty small in some places, so you basically walk up the thing balanced on your big toes. There were a few times when my legs were getting shaky, but they never failed. Your grip is almost always the weakest link in the chain, so it's where you fail.

John Long asserted back in the 80s that the fear of muscle mass was unfounded - he estimated that most climbers could increase their strength by 20% for a 5 pound increase in bodyweight. Few people listened.

I'm 6'1" and a much better climber at 190-200 lbs than at 160 lbs. Get your deadlift up and then (only afterward!) think of the hangboard as a conditioning tool for your grip, rather than a strength tool.

QUOTE=Feng_Li;1750709]John Long asserted back in the 80s that the fear of muscle mass was unfounded - he estimated that most climbers could increase their strength by 20% for a 5 pound increase in bodyweight. Few people listened.

I'm 6'1" and a much better climber at 190-200 lbs than at 160 lbs. Get your deadlift up and then (only afterward!) think of the hangboard as a conditioning tool for your grip, rather than a strength tool.[/QUOTE]

My hypothesis is he's right.

Here's a question that's still nagging me: What about your finger pulleys?

If anyone is unfamiliar with hand anatomy, the pulleys are basically ligaments that wrap the finger tendons to the bones, like the guides on a fishing rod bind the line to the rod.

In a half crimp position, these get a ton of stress. The one paper I can find estimates a force on some pulleys that's 32x the force on the finger tip.

Gripping a heavy barbell will certainly cause my finger flexors and tendons to adapt, but the normal force of the bar on the fingers will tend to deload the pulleys. So what will cause them to adapt along with my tendons and muscles?

I'm not trying to be argumentative. It's just a question that's nagging me. Pulley strains and ruptures are common climbing injuries that can put you out of action for quite a while.

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Originally Posted by Climber84

Gripping a heavy barbell will certainly cause my finger flexors and tendons to adapt, but the normal force of the bar on the fingers will tend to deload the pulleys. So what will cause them to adapt along with my tendons and muscles?

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If you grip the barbell low in the fingers (i.e., correctly), your A2 pulley should remain loaded (I understand the A2 is most commonly injured). Beyond that, I would expect that ordinary climbing practice as your grip strength increases provides a sufficient progressive increase in stress on the pulleys. I'm sure you are familiar with the standard advice to favor an open grip in training over a crimp whenever possible, and the reasons behind it.

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Originally Posted by Feng_Li

If you grip the barbell low in the fingers (i.e., correctly), your A2 pulley should remain loaded (I understand the A2 is most commonly injured). Beyond that, I would expect that ordinary climbing practice as your grip strength increases provides a sufficient progressive increase in stress on the pulleys. I'm sure you are familiar with the standard advice to favor an open grip in training over a crimp whenever possible, and the reasons behind it.

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That makes sense. Thanks.

Being a year into climbing doesn't really give much information about how adapted your body is to climbing. What could you do when you started climbing? Is it mostly top rope/lead or bouldering? How long do you climb/number of routes? Do you climb mostly at your flash level, or do you project a lot? What grade can you consistently flash?

Grip strength in climbing is mostly isometric at very specific hand positions. Narrow pinch strength does not translate very well to wide pinch strength, closed crimp translates a little to half crimp but does not translate to open hand strength used in 'slopers' or open handed crimps.

I have been bouldering for close to 6 years now. I am 6'1" and 27 years old. I started doing starting strength back in March. I started the year at 190Ibs. I was 215 by May and my dead lift went from 225 to 385. I have had several minor injuries this year almost all of them due to climbing and not lifting.

When I started doing starting strength I could perform a 1/2 inch dead hang for 10 seconds with a half crimp with 55ibs added at 190ibs. By May I was 215 and doing the 1/2 dead hang with 75ibs. I was continuously training my half crimp the same day I climbed. I did starting strength MWF and climbed Tu,Th,Su. One thing I would suggest is not doing pull-ups or chins the days that you do starting strength. I would do them after climbing.

I should add that I reduced my climbing from 3 hours to 1.5 hours then trained for the last bit. I have only discussed my dead lift as this thread seems focused on finger strength.

Update: I've passed the goal without adding much body weight, and while it's taken a fair amount out of my climbing time, I've definitely improved as a climber.

Starting numbers were:
Press: 95
Bench: 155
Squat: 185
Dead lift: 275

This week I was able to do 1, 2, 3 and 4 plates for respectively for singles, and I definitely could have done more on each. I can pull 365 for 5 double overhand, and I use straps at higher weights. Bodyweight went from 183 to 189.

For climbers: I had basically plateaued at flashing in the mid 5.10s. Now, doing much less climbing (often only once a week as opposed to 3-5 times per week before), I can often get a mid 5.11. I expect once I put more focus on back on climbing, that will improve quickly. No injuries apart from the odd minor tweak.