Going from 5x1 to 2x3 on Deadlifts / NLP

Hey guys, i have read from people like Andy Baker and Rori Alter (Scenario 4) that apparently its a thing to go from 5x1 (rep x sets) to 3x2, when stalling on deadlifts. First of all, there isn't really anything about that in Practical Programming, other than a small section for female lifters, but that section was about the TM anyway, not the NLP.

So, i understand why going from 5x3 to 3x3 on the other lifts is a thing. Because you are decreasing volume to allow for recovery, while increasing intensity at the same time. But thats not the same thing when going from 5x1 to 3x2, since in that case, you are increasing both the volume and intensity. Wouldn't it be better to go from 5x1 to 3x1 for a few weeks and THEN go to 3x2, after you stall again? Also, i thought you weren't supposed to add volume to your deadlifts anyway, while doing the NLP.

Please help me understand this, i feel like im missing something.

Hi, I can offer my opinion on this. So here it is:

The goal of this change is to milk the NLP as much as possible. At the end, your deadlift is getting heavy but it is still kind of easy to recover from in order to hit your numbers in other lifts at next training. So this is why you go for 1 more rep and still pushing forward before intermidiate programing.

The other bonus from this change is creating a chance to know how a heavy deadlift feels like. You need to learn this because later everything feels heavy. You need this confidence of pushing heavy weights.

So when you move to intermidiate programing and start to pull heavy once a week 5RM than you know your deadlift is heavy. I have seen many people go way to early out of NLP for various reasons - mostly diet, rest between sets and not knowing how to grind reps.

That is my opinion but I'm not sure if this is exactly the reason why those to coaches recommend this.

It's much further along the training path when things get really heavy. Pulling 500lbs for a set of 5 is pretty taxing on the old CNS particularly for older people. Splitting up the reps gives some inter set recovery.

Alright, i can see that. Would it ever make sense to go back to 5x1 after doing 3x2, or would you just switch to intermediate programing at this point? Rori Alter also said something about doing 3x1, plus 3x2 at -5%. Any thoughts on that? Thanks for the response.

Jonx, there is no point in going back to 5x1 and continue LP. You introduce changes at the very end so by definition it should not be possible to go back and make significant progress. I'm talking about standard model case. I can imagine a situation where someone started NLP on a deficit calories, droped some wheight and is willing to put some more muscles. After calories increase this person should restart NLP.

In general, the further you go into the woods, the more complicated it gets. But when it comes to programing, you allways want the simpliest solution. Especialy when you are novice/early intermidiate.

As for the 3x1 and -5% 3x2 - I don't understand this. After you stall your deadlift at 3x2 or even 3RM I would just move to weekly 5RM. 5% is not that much. It's kind of a back off set but I would save this idea after you encounter your first problems with weekly progression. I'm not saying it's bad - I just don't understand this.

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Originally Posted by Johnx

Alright, i can see that. Would it ever make sense to go back to 5x1 after doing 3x2, or would you just switch to intermediate programing at this point? Rori Alter also said something about doing 3x1, plus 3x2 at -5%. Any thoughts on that? Thanks for the response.

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That IS intermediate training. Just do NLP as written. You can move to sets of 3 if you want to milk it, but that won't last very long so it's easier just to move on to intermediate straight away if that's where you are.

As Szymon has posted: There are lots of excuses for not maxing out NLP by NDTP and mixing in some intermediate programming-don't do that. Look at the 3 questions and do what's necessary to get as much weight as possible on the bar doing 5s, it really will pay off if you get the apprenticeship right. I bet there are dozens of us here that know we didn't really do what was necessary during NLP-don't be one of us :-) stay the course. Think of Rip shouting in you ear "finish your reps" "you don't know if you couldn't unless you tried to get that last rep" -that works for me.

First NLP change is only deadlifting Monday and Friday. Do chins or rows on Wednesday.

Second change is switch from 1x5 to 2x3 like you did.

When that stops working you introduce the third change: Do 2x3 on Friday and 2x5 (2 sets of 5) @ 90% on Monday.

When the 2x3 on Friday stop working introduce the fourth change: 3RM + 1x3 backoff @ 90% on Friday and 2x5 @ 90% on Monday.

Pretty smooth transition from NLP to intermediate programming.

The next step then would be a switch to a 4 day split.

Sawyer, read the book again.

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Originally Posted by Johnx

H First of all, there isn't really anything about that in Practical Programming, other than a small section for female lifters, but that section was about the TM anyway, not the NLP.

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LOL...what? PPT3 provides quite a bit of detail around this. You didn't read the book. Read it. Then read it again.