Chin-ups for golfers elbow - the right way?.

Hi Rip,

I have recently developed golfer's elbow on my left arm. It's particularly painful during the squat, and interferes with my bench press. I videoed myself when squatting and see that my elbows are way too high, and so I'm going to make adjustments per the guidance on your YouTube videos on the topic.

I've read your chin-up routine to fix elbow tendinitis and I'm ready to try it. I've listened to your podcast with Mike Matthews on it as well as the recent Q&A from your podcast, and one thing I picked up is that it's imperative that it's done your way. I want to make sure I fully understand how to do it properly.

The questions I have after listening and reading are:

How much rest in between chin-up days?

Should I wait until the tendinitis is gone before attempting to squat again (with the improved grip)? Or should I work on the squat in tandem with the chin-ups?

Is other upper body work that isn't painful ok, or should I do nothing except chin-ups until the tendinitis is resolved?

Thank you.

Rest 5 days between the workouts. Don't wait to fix your squat grip, which is the cause of the problem. Otherwise, train as normal.

Thank you. So, to make sure I'm crystal clear, a hypothetical week would look like:

Sunday - 20 set chin-ups @ ~33% of max reps
Mon - Train as normal
Tues - Rest
Wed - Train as normal
Thurs - Rest
Fri - Chin-ups again
Sat - Train as normal

Repeat until tendonitis is resolved?

Hi Ryan, I had acquired a bad case of Golfer's elbow from doing too much bodyweight exercises, mostly from doing 5 sets of 10 chins every day, during the COVID lockdown. It got so bad that my 9 year old son was able to beat me at a game of shuttle badminton for the first time and even holding a racket became a difficult proposition soon thereafter. I tried all the usual Google/YouTube remedies with no success before attempting pin firing. I was a bit apprehensive in the beginning because it was the actually the chins that created the condition in the first place - I even felt like an idiot trusting in homeopathy-like principle of like curing the like.

But I took the leap of faith and started chinning every other day. I was not able to do my normal training due to lack of equipment. I built my home gym in between and restarted the LP at light loads (even benching the bar was difficult first). I still continued chinning triples+doubles every other day. My progress is recorded here: Yet another Anecdotal Evidence for or against chin up protocol for Golfer's Elbow

The pain was almost gone by the 24th day. It disappeared completely within another week or so. I am now close to breaking my pre-COVID bench PR and the elbow doesn't hurt at all.

Here are the take aways from my experience:

1) Pin firing protocol is not for the light hearted. Developing a masochistic mentality helps. Good news is that the pain reaches the level of saturation by about 4th or 5th set and remains stationary thereafter.
2) Applying ice exacerbated the condition. Applying heat really helped. I applied the heat pack and took hot showers whenever possible.
3) I do not know if it was the pin firing, applying the heat, resuming the NLP, the break from shuttle badminton with the kid, or the combination of the above that actually helped. What I know is that attempting pin firing did not adversely affect the healing.

Hope this helps.

Is it possible to substitute lat pull downs for chins ?

I’ve been free of Golfers elbow for almost a year, but since returning to training post Covid is got the beginnings of Tennis elbow for some inexplicable reason :-/ (it was squat hand/arm position and once I sorted that out I was pain free). I can do chins, but I’m not great at them, so wondered if lat pulls would work ?

Try them and see.

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Originally Posted by Nockian

Is it possible to substitute lat pull downs for chins ?

I’ve been free of Golfers elbow for almost a year, but since returning to training post Covid is got the beginnings of Tennis elbow for some inexplicable reason :-/ (it was squat hand/arm position and once I sorted that out I was pain free). I can do chins, but I’m not great at them, so wondered if lat pulls would work ?

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Also, I’ve noticed a closer grip on the chins is easier on the medial elbows.

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Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe

Try them and see.

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I already incorporate lat pulls in my training weekly, but as 3 sets of 10-12 reps at 140lbs (adding 5lbs per week). Would that interfere with the pin firing protocol, or(if they worked) could I do them alongside/part of the protocol ?

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Originally Posted by VNV

Also, I’ve noticed a closer grip on the chins is easier on the medial elbows.

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That’s one of the reasons I suck at chins. It’s not that I can’t do them, but my technique is bad after the first few reps.

Speaking of pin firing, have you ever heard of, or used a turpentine based liniment for tendinitis? It was pretty commonly used for homemade horse liniments, at least where I grew up, and I knew an old farm wife who swore by it for any ache, pain, sprain, or contusion she might have. Correcting my squat grip resolved my own elbow pain without having to do the chinup protocol, but I still have a jar of liniment that I occasionally use when things ache. I assume it works as a rubefacient/counterirritant. (And yes, I know it's mildly toxic).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nockian

I already incorporate lat pulls in my training weekly, but as 3 sets of 10-12 reps at 140lbs (adding 5lbs per week). Would that interfere with the pin firing protocol, or(if they worked) could I do them alongside/part of the protocol ?



That’s one of the reasons I suck at chins. It’s not that I can’t do them, but my technique is bad after the first few reps.

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Just do it your way, Nockian. It's probably better.

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Originally Posted by Matt James

Speaking of pin firing, have you ever heard of, or used a turpentine based liniment for tendinitis? It was pretty commonly used for homemade horse liniments, at least where I grew up, and I knew an old farm wife who swore by it for any ache, pain, sprain, or contusion she might have. Correcting my squat grip resolved my own elbow pain without having to do the chinup protocol, but I still have a jar of liniment that I occasionally use when things ache. I assume it works as a rubefacient/counterirritant. (And yes, I know it's mildly toxic).

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Counterirritants do not fix tendonitis.

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Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe

Counterirritants do not fix tendonitis.

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I wondered about that, which is why I asked. The most dramatic effect I've seen with turpentine liniment is for big, ugly bruises and bad ankle sprains.

While running the every five day pin-firing protocol, is there any issue with doing weighted chin-ups on regularly scheduled training days?

I did pin firing 20*5 on Sunday and weighted chins on Tuesday morning. It hurt (as is expected) but I was able to complete it. The next pin firing is on Friday.

Will these weighted chins interfere with the pin firing process?

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Originally Posted by Matt James

The most dramatic effect I've seen with turpentine liniment is for big, ugly bruises and bad ankle sprains.

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Which were going to heal anyway.

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Originally Posted by James Rodgers

While running the every five day pin-firing protocol, is there any issue with doing weighted chin-ups on regularly scheduled training days?

I did pin firing 20*5 on Sunday and weighted chins on Tuesday morning. It hurt (as is expected) but I was able to complete it. The next pin firing is on Friday.

Will these weighted chins interfere with the pin firing process?

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I really don't understand why this has to be so complicated. I told you how to do it my way, you don't like my way, so just do it your way and see what happens.

I will simply add that I had it real bad, adopted Coach's protocol, and it worked perfectly. It was hard and painful as fuck at first, but it worked.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe

Just do it your way, Nockian. It's probably better.

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Probably ? Definitely. :-)