Move on from LP?

Hello,

Would appreciate anyone's opinion on whether I should move on from LP or not.

Male, 32, 6' 3", went from 195 lbs -> 225 lbs. Began LP on May 25 of this year.

Progress (lbs). These are my best, some are from failed sets.
Squat: 115x5x3 -> 295x5
Press: 85x5x3 -> 152x4
Deadlift: 185x5 -> 345x3x2
Bench: 115x5x3 -> 205x5x3
Clean: 135x3x5 -> 165x3x5

I rest 11 minutes between sets. Titrated up from 3 minutes at the beginning of LP.

Sleep: not wonderful, not bad. 6 - 8 hours most nights.

Food: A lot. I don't track macros, but I have in the past and have a very good idea of how much (e.g., a fist full, etc.) of a certain food I should eat at a given meal and can more or less keep a running total in my head. Protein is definitely ~200 - 225 g / day. Fat vs Carbs not sure. But I eat a lot. I've not lost weight on LP.

All opinions welcome.

Have you done the advanced LP outlined in PPST? If you haven’t then give that a shot for a few weeks because just looking at your numbers your squats and deadlifts look a little light for someone who’s 225 lbs.

Another question, why are you asking if you should switch? Are you failing lifts? Are you just bored? Is this the first time you’ve run a LP? The last 10% at the end can be brutal, it’s draining to put 5 lbs on the squat 3 times a week (or 2 if you’re doing the advanced novice). But it’s also worth to grind out those gains and not delaying progress on intermediate programming which will have you advancing at a slower pace.

Each lift can run out at a different time. It's rare that one shifts their entire program to INT at once. For someone you age and height, those number seem about right for nearing an end of LP, though with a body weight at 225, depending on how much of that is fat, you might be able to keep going. The best thing to do now before choosing what to do is to get some extensive form feedback from a coach to make sure that isn't holding you back anywhere.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justin Smale

Have you done the advanced LP outlined in PPST? If you haven’t then give that a shot for a few weeks because just looking at your numbers your squats and deadlifts look a little light for someone who’s 225 lbs.

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Briefly. I just added a light squat and tried the top set + back off sets and the frequency reduction. Probably a premature assessment, but even with these changes I'm struggling to complete my workouts. I do think I need a reset as I've not really reset most of my lifts yet - once on the squat at 250 lbs.

Your perspective on my lifts vs. my size is appreciated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justin Smale

Another question, why are you asking if you should switch? Are you failing lifts? Are you just bored? Is this the first time you’ve run a LP? The last 10% at the end can be brutal, it’s draining to put 5 lbs on the squat 3 times a week (or 2 if you’re doing the advanced novice). But it’s also worth to grind out those gains and not delaying progress on intermediate programming which will have you advancing at a slower pace.

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I'm on a timeline for a meet in a few weeks and am trying to figure out the best programming approach. On one hand I'm pretty confident I can add 5 lbs / week to my lifts and make some good progress using something like the Texas Method. On the other hand, if I try to continue to run out the novice progression, I may stall a few times and have to reset and give up some progress.

I've run an LP before, but this go-around I've made it much further on my squat and deadlift at the very least. Pretty much back to where I started stalling before everywhere else.

So really just wondering if my numbers are reflective of someone who should move on or if there's a lot of room left and worth resetting and running it out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hayden-William Courtland

Each lift can run out at a different time. It's rare that one shifts their entire program to INT at once. For someone you age and height, those number seem about right for nearing an end of LP, though with a body weight at 225, depending on how much of that is fat, you might be able to keep going. The best thing to do now before choosing what to do is to get some extensive form feedback from a coach to make sure that isn't holding you back anywhere.

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Thanks Coach. I am planning on finding one soon for at least some occasional in person coaching.

I should add that last time I did LP I ended up weighing about 240 almost 245. So I probably do have some room to “grow”. Can’t really say whether it was mostly fat or not. I’ve always been kind of fat anyway.

The weights on the bar do not define when you're an intermediate. How often/much you can add weight to the bar does. People can vary pretty wildly in strength. There are stories of someone who managed 400+ pounds on his first deadlift. Should that guy be training as an intermediate now because his weight is so high? No, of course not. The question to ask is if a lift is getting hung up. It's been said that the true end of an LP is possibly the most grueling lifting you'll do, so if you're feeling that way, it doesn't mean it's over. Just maybe that it will be soon.

As has already been said, lifts get that endpoint of the LP at different times. The programming is designed to accommodate this. 2 of the 3 intermediate templates given operate on a three day per week schedule, just like the LP does. They center around three daily "slots" for squatting, pressing, and pulls (particularly from the floor), just like the LP does. You can run some "slots" as intermediate as needed, some as novice as possible. It's well put together like that. Do you have a copy of PPST? You should get it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eric Schexnayder

Your perspective on my lifts vs. my size is appreciated.



I'm on a timeline for a meet in a few weeks and am trying to figure out the best programming approach. On one hand I'm pretty confident I can add 5 lbs / week to my lifts and make some good progress using something like the Texas Method. On the other hand, if I try to continue to run out the novice progression, I may stall a few times and have to reset and give up some progress.

I've run an LP before, but this go-around I've made it much further on my squat and deadlift at the very least. Pretty much back to where I started stalling before everywhere else.

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For my further two cents, if you read PPST about transitioning to a program like TM, you’ll see that it recommends dropping the weight (5-10% I think but I don’t have the book in front of me). For good reason too, 5x5 at the same weight you’re doing 3x5 will leave you feeling like hammered shit (speaking from experience here). So if you’re stuck at that 295 lbs squat and you’re going to do things by the book either way you’ll be looking at a reset. The difference being you’ll add that weight back on the bar way faster in a NLP than an intermediate program since you’re adding every workout not every week. And you’re 3-4 weeks out and if you account for some light days leading into the meet, you don’t have much time to be adding a ton of weight anyway. If it were me, I’d do everything I can to grind out 20 more lbs on a LP. Oh and if you haven’t submitted the lifts you’re worried about to the technique section for some form checks definitely do that too since anything you can clean up will mean more weight on the bar.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hayden-William Courtland

Each lift can run out at a different time. It's rare that one shifts their entire program to INT at once. For someone you age and height, those number seem about right for nearing an end of LP, though with a body weight at 225, depending on how much of that is fat, you might be able to keep going. The best thing to do now before choosing what to do is to get some extensive form feedback from a coach to make sure that isn't holding you back anywhere.

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Coach, I'm probably being dense here, but are you implying / hinting that I should be trying to gain more weight to progress LP further?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Justin Smale

For my further two cents, if you read PPST about transitioning to a program like TM, you’ll see that it recommends dropping the weight (5-10% I think but I don’t have the book in front of me). For good reason too, 5x5 at the same weight you’re doing 3x5 will leave you feeling like hammered shit (speaking from experience here). So if you’re stuck at that 295 lbs squat and you’re going to do things by the book either way you’ll be looking at a reset. The difference being you’ll add that weight back on the bar way faster in a NLP than an intermediate program since you’re adding every workout not every week. And you’re 3-4 weeks out and if you account for some light days leading into the meet, you don’t have much time to be adding a ton of weight anyway. If it were me, I’d do everything I can to grind out 20 more lbs on a LP. Oh and if you haven’t submitted the lifts you’re worried about to the technique section for some form checks definitely do that too since anything you can clean up will mean more weight on the bar.

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Good point about the reset. Frankly, I think this is all stuff I know I need to do and just needed to hear it from someone else. Appreciate all the help.

Just generally speaking at 225 many guys your age and height could get higher numbers, especially in the BP, DL and PC. When I was your age, I was only 200lbs and had those numbers or higher. There are of course many factors that can affect your potential, which is why I suggested getting your form checked out.

Okay, that’s a very useful data point for me. I train alone and have no fellow barbell trainees anywhere near where I live and obviously am not a coach. So an idea of whether I’m leaving pounds off the bar is not readily available, and serves as a good motivation to stick it out in LP. I’ll hopefully be able to get myself over to a Starting Strength Coach soon.

Thanks again Coach.

You can also pay for online form checks from a coach if you cannot get to one in-person.