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Thread: Compressed Texas Method for old guy and questions

  1. #1
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    Default Compressed Texas Method for old guy and questions

    • starting strength seminar april 2024
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    First of all a big thank you to RIP for starting strength and to Dr Sully for the barbell prescription (which is how I found ss). You both have changed my life.
    (Background) I’m a 47 year old male. I’m tall 6ft and very very thin framed and very under muscled my whole life. When I started LP in November of ‘21 I weighed in at 145lb. Prior to LP i had six months of upper body db work (with very little results). In July ‘21 I had a partial meniscectomy knee surgery to fix a knee injury that left me unable to walk well for six months. I lost almost any strength I had in my lower body which already very weak waiting for surgery. I started with body weight squats for two weeks prior to starting my LP. My starting number are very embarrassing and even now but I will never quit. I’ve been all in since starting and 100% committed to my strength training. That being said, my numbers when starting were:

    Height 6’0
    Body weight 145lb
    Squat: empty bar
    Deadlift: empty bar
    Press: empty bar
    Bench 70lbs

    During my first two months i had many injuries I worked through because I was so weak. Had to deload squat a couple times but still after almost four months have not missed a workout. All my injuries resolved starting my 9th week. My bench and press had to be micro loaded right away. Squats had to go to 2.5lb jumps real quick. Deadlifts have always been 5lb jumps. Recovery stated becoming an issue after 2 months on the standard 3x week heavy squat LP as the squat got heavy (for me) and my presses struggled to go up even 1 lb at a time. Sleep has always been 9 hours a night and i track all my food and macros to make sure im in at least a 500-800 cal surplus with 200g of protein.

    My first programming change was Masters Program 2B in “The Barebell Prescription”, then 2C. Then due to recovery issues the 4 day novice type 1 with 3 days pressing rotation. For the few weeks of this routine my presses were unable to add weight but I had read Nicks article and watched the youtube vid discussing the compressed texas method for the upper body lifts when theyve stall out but the squat and dl are still progressing with standard LP. So I was adding 1lb to my presses while getting my 15 reps in. After two weeks it was just taking too many sets and time. So this is my first week starting the compressed texas method for my presses. Here are my current numbers and my questions will follow.

    Bodyweight: 165.5lb
    Squat: 107.5lb 3 sets of 5
    Deadlift: 150lb 1x5
    Bench: 91lb was my last 3x5; max was @97lbs for a triple
    Press: 61 was last 3x5; max was 67 for a triple.

    I’m currently running the Basic 4 day novice Type 2 on page 209 of TBP with the mod of the compressed texas method for the press days.
    Mon squat/dl
    Tue: 5x5 vol press, int bench 1x5
    Wed: off
    Thurs: squat 3x5 , lat pulls 3x8-10
    Fri: int press 7-10 singles, vol bench 5x5

    So my questions are: on my intensity bench day I just do one set of 5 at my 5 rep max? Or is it 5 singles? There isn't much difference from my 5x5 weight to my 1x5 weight so I’m a bit confused as to the intensity bench day being a set of 5 or 5 singles. I normally add weight to my lifts 1x a week so do I add weight on intensity day or volume day? How is it managed? The press days are explained well and the difference between volume and intense heavy singles is more obvious and how to add weight straight forward.

    I did a volume bench 5x5@85lb and completed last set and rep but it was tough and the on int bench I loaded 90lb and 4 reps went but I failed the 5 rep. Honestly I felt like 5 singles @95lb would have been far more productive but obv I don't know.

    Thanks for any and all advice you may have and Im sorry this was so long but I feel like the background info was needed to get a glimpse of my situation. My progress so far has been slow and by no means average but I’m just playing the crap cards I was dealt genetically and paying for not getting strong while younger!

  2. #2
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    1. You're not old.

    2. Disclaimer. I’m not an expert, so feel free to take what I'm gonna say with a grain of salt. I’m pitching in because I think you and I have two things in common: we’re relatively small and both handle weights that are light in absolute terms. What I have observed during my own NLP might be helpful to you.

    3. Form. A whacky form is a likely explanation for your below-average linear progress. I recommend you seek form checks, especially for the press and squat. The press is very sensitive to technique. A misaligned, poorly-timed, or misgrooved press won't go up unless it's light (i.e. not heavy enough for the purpose of training).

    4. Using 1-lb jumps. For context, I did my NLP from December 2020 to June 2021, had a 2-month lay-off during the summer due to a move, and then resumed my NLP in August.

    On the press, I started my NLP using 2.5-lb jumps until I failed to progress from 57.5 to 60 lbs, roughly 2 months into my NLP. On the next session, I reset the weight to 58 lbs and have been adding 1 lb per session ever since.

    On the bench, I was wiser and made the switch from 2.5 to 1-lb jumps before I failed a set. I used the same approach when I resumed by NLP.

    I have found that making the switch to 1-lb jumps works best when done a few pounds before stalling, so it has some room to work. In the case of the press, I am pretty sure I would have ended up in your situation had I not backed off a little. Perhaps that is what you need to do in order to resume a more typical NLP.

    5. Frequency. As an ungifted presser, the most important lesson I have learned from my NLP is that both my press and bench are very sensitive to frequency in terms of days per week (not sessions per week).

    In addition to the micro-loading, what worked best in driving progress on my press and bench during my NLP was to train every other day rather than 3 days per week: this would look like the 3C program (p. 304) performed on an every-other-day basis.

    In my case though, I had a light squat day in my program at that point. So if you have recovery issues, this approach would look like the 3D program (p. 205) performed on an every-other-day basis.

    Either way, both approaches would have you press 7 times per 2-week period, as opposed to 6. It doesn’t seem like much, but this is what “unleased” my progress on the upper-body lifts.

    With the program you laid out, you would only press twice a week, which is less often than on a typical NLP. In my case, I am 100% sure this would have led to detraining. Even now that I am using the compressed TM for the upper-body lifts, I do it on a 4-day split where I press or bench every time I train, either every other day or 4 days per week.

    6. Upper/lower splits. I have zero evidence to back up what I am about to say, but as a small person who handles weights that are light in absolute terms, I have found that the press and the bench are not stressful enough to elicit the SRA cycle when performed on their own.

    I might sound a bit bodybuilder-like, but I see anabolism as a state. By state, I mean a systemic response rather than a localized phenomenon. Given that I don’t have a whole lot of upper body muscle mass, and that I press weights that are just not that heavy, I have found that an upper-body workout is not stressful enough to elicit a systemic response in my case. That’s why I stick with full-body workouts, so that my press and bench reap the benefits of the systemic response elicited by the squat and deadlift.

    7. Practice. I doubt that using a compressed TM at this point of your training is a good idea. If I had done this at that point in my own training (back in February 2021), I am quite confident this would have led to regression rather than progress.

    The weights you would handle on volume days would not be heavy enough to make that approach productive. Moreover, you'd get fewer reps on your intensity day, so less exposure to, and practice with, heavy weights.

    This early into your NLP, it is important that you get frequent practice under heavy weights. Both pressing movements are very technique-dependent, especially the press: it's easy to get it right under lighter weights, but keeping the movement efficient under a heavy load is a sine qua none condition for progress on those lifts. This requires lots of practice.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that pressing against a heavy weight is a skill of its own. You won't develop that skill while handling lighter weights for volume, or with fewer high-intensity reps. You're still fairly new to barbell training; you need to get used to putting up hard fights against gravity.



    So in a nutshell, I think you should assess whether your form is an obstacle to your progress; maybe reset a tiny bit to give the 1-lb jump approach some room to work; maintain a pressing frequency of at least 3 days per week; stick with full-body workouts; and keep weights heavy on every pressing session.

    Also, the guys are probably going to suggest you get your testosterone levels checked.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny&mighty View Post
    Also, the guys are probably going to suggest you get your testosterone levels checked.
    He'll take it more seriously coming from you.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    He'll take it more seriously coming from you.
    It's a bit outside of my lane, but I'll give it a shot.

    Get your testosterone levels checked, Tim. If they're low and you get this corrected, you will:
    - recover more quickly from your training sessions;
    - have more confidence under the bar and elsewhere, and more courage to attempt and complete hard reps;
    - be more fun to be around, both in general and in particular (wink wink).

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the pointers and advice. I have an appointment in a week to have my T levels checked.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny&mighty View Post
    and more courage to attempt and complete hard reps;
    I give my training 100%. I grind hard reps every session but yes absolutely I get it. I had my appointment booked for dr to check my T levels a couple weeks ago. Also, Ive been micro loading press and bench early on. I hit the point where i hit that wall on press and bench close to the same time where i started failing a rep on the third set and sometimes the next workout also. Im going to take your advice in your previous post and make some changes like you suggested. Ill update after i see how things go with the changes. Thanks again and the T test will be interesting. 👍

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    He'll take it more seriously coming from you.
    I respect and take everything you say serious. You and your team of coaches etc are the only source of strength training I follow and trust. The rest of this industry is completely fos. I know from experience. Your youtube and website catalogue of articles and videos plus ss, ppfst and tbp books are hands down the bibles for strength training. Its a conspiracy that this isn't known mainstream. I cant imagine not finding it all. Much respect and thanks to you sir. Not many real ones left these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by tiny&mighty View Post
    Either way, both approaches would have you press 7 times per 2-week period, as opposed to 6. It doesn’t seem like much, but this is what “unleased” my progress on the upper-body lifts.
    I see your point getting 7 pressing days in 2 weeks rather than 6 but with the compressed tm i’d get 8 (2 press, 2 bench per week). One of each being an intensity day but less reps overall so youre probably correct. On an every other day pressing model are you also squatting 7 or 6 times per two weeks as well rather than 6? When my 3x5 press and bench hit a wall im almost certain it was due to the squat getting heavy (relatively speaking for me) which was affecting my recovery as stated in “The barbell prescription”. Initially I took the books advice and eliminated a work set each session so I was squatting 3x a week 2x5 work set. Then after still struggling to recover and press and bench stalling I went to 4 day model with squat 3x5 2x a week but a 3x a week pressing rotation. Looked like this:
    Tues: squat 3x5, bench 3x5 or 15 reps with varied sets.
    Wed: back extensions 3x8
    Fri: Squat 3x5, press 3x5 or 15 reps varied sets
    Sat: Deadlift 1x5, bench 3x5

    This worked well but presses started taking a long time over lots of sets. So i assumed at this point that my presses needed more volume/frequency after reading the compressed TM article and watching the youtube vid by Nick. So i just finished my first week of that. By doing a 4 day split as follows:

    Tues: Squat 3x5, deadlift 1x5
    Wed: Press 5x5, bench 1x 5
    Fri: Squat 3x5, lat pull 3x8-10
    Sat Press 10x1, bench 5x5

    I pr’d my press singles @67lb and intensity day bench was 90lb for 1x4 failed 5th rep (should have done 89lb). When I was doing 15 total reps with varied sets my bench pr was 97lb for triple.

    I wonder how the every other day full body with be on my recovery not having 2 days off in a row.

  7. #7
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    If your GP is who you plan on seeing for the test level, he's going to tell you that you're fine if you are anywhere within the reference range, and nothing will be done. If I were you, I'd go to a low-T clinic.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbelltim3 View Post
    I see your point getting 7 pressing days in 2 weeks rather than 6 but with the compressed tm i’d get 8 (2 press, 2 bench per week).
    You'd get 8 sessions but only 2 days over a 7-day period. Which means you go 2 to 3 days without pressing. In my case, that doesn't work. Every other day is best, 2 days off is tolerable, but beyond that, I start to miss reps that should have gone up. That said, coordination has never been my strong suit, so that might be why I respond well to a high frequency in terms of days per week.

    Quote Originally Posted by bbelltim3 View Post
    On an every other day pressing model are you also squatting 7 or 6 times per two weeks as well rather than 6? When my 3x5 press and bench hit a wall im almost certain it was due to the squat getting heavy (relatively speaking for me) which was affecting my recovery as stated in “The barbell prescription”.
    That's why I suggested you could go with 3D; in this case you would squat "heavy" 3 to 4 times every two weeks.

    That said, poor recovery caused by a 0.65 X BW squat seems unlikely at your age, but my perception might very well be biased (women recover faster than men). Out of curiosity, what made you reach the conclusion that you have recovery issues?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbelltim3 View Post
    (Background) I’m a 47 year old male. I’m tall 6ft and very very thin framed and very under muscled my whole life. When I started LP in November of ‘21 I weighed in at 145lb . . . , my numbers when starting were:

    Height 6’0
    Body weight 145lb

    . . . . Here are my current numbers . . .

    Bodyweight: 165.5lb
    Twenty pounds of bodyweight gain in four months is pretty good. 165 is still awfully light--it's likely that progress will be tied to increased bodyweight. You're off to a good start, but keep at it. I've only managed to gain about 10 pounds a year, but it adds up over time and it helps!

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    If your GP is who you plan on seeing for the test level, he's going to tell you that you're fine if you are anywhere within the reference range, and nothing will be done. If I were you, I'd go to a low-T clinic.
    I got my GP to order the test so my insurance would pay for the lab and Ill take the lab to a T clinic. GP is clueless on subject as well as strength training of course. Shes a glorified mis/disinformationist and prescription writer. After mansplaining strength training and the stress adaptation process to her she looked at me with dead eyes and asked if I also equally focus on cardio and getting my heart rate up. I asked her if she had ever barbell squatted and deadlifted heavy for 1.5hrs. She changed the subject. Lol.

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