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Thread: Slow gains

  1. #11
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    • starting strength seminar april 2024
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    (OP here) I'm using bar speed as a surrogate for (or indication of) grind.

  2. #12
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    Hi Grinnell. 66 y.o.lifter here. For me, grinding is the joy of lifting.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinnell3 View Post
    (Being married to a 'horse woman' has some unique benefits).
    The possibilities boggle the mind.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinnell3 View Post
    (OP here) I'm 74 and according to the actuarial tables I should expect to live to be 85. However, I'm in excellent health, have a reasonably active lifestyle and hope to do better than that. I believe that there is probably a 'law of diminishing returns' for the health benefits of additional strength. So how strong is 'strong enough'?

    Today I pulled 1 x 3 @205 deadlifts and have been increasing 2.5 lbs per weekly session. My goal in a few months is to pull 225, just because I think '2 plates' would be cool at my age. If I eventually get to 315 sometime it would be good for the ego, but I suspect the incremental health benefits would not be that significant. The functional benefits are no longer that important since I can afford to pay a kid $20 an hour for the annual day of loading, unloading and stacking hay in the barn.

    There would be a functional benefit to an 80 pound overhead press (for occasionally re-stacking hay bales). With my current 3 x 3 @56 pound press and 1 pound increments it will be a while to reach that goal. I don't have any goals for the bench and squat, they'll progress at whatever rate is reasonable. On my 'active rest' days, I've been doing the 'farmers carry' with a couple of 45 lb plates, working my way up to the 125 steps from the porch to the barn. This has actually proven to be useful in my daily routine of hauling buckets of feed, water and manure. (Being married to a 'horse woman' has some unique benefits).

    My real issue is the question of whether it is really necessary to grind and operate at the ragged edge of failure in order to continue to make long term progress (up to some reasonable percentage of your genetic potential). Since I've gone from sets of 5 to sets of 3 to help my recovery, I'm not beat up and sore and having to grind out the last two reps. Now when I have to grind, it is the result of some form problem. Today I had to grind out a squat rep where I got the weight a little forward coming out of the hole and the last rep of my first overhead press set was really slow getting to the lockout because I'd let the bar wander too far forward.

    I realize that things will get objectively harder in the future as the weights get heavier, but as one adapts does it necessarily get subjectively 'harder'. What about 'if form and bar speed are reasonably good (for a particular lift), add a little weight the next time, otherwise repeat'? With this approach you would add weight after a 'good day' and accept being temporarily stuck at that weight if you can't handle it reasonably well the next time.
    I don't know what you are doing at "the ragged edge of failure". The point is to do every rep with good form and add weight when you can do so without mucking up the form. Grinding means doing one more rep when you think you can't, or getting under some added weight on a bar and getting a rep when you know that it will be tough. It doesn't mean operating at the ragged edge, that's for competition single lifts. Push on safely, there are no bonuses for injury. Move forward adding weight, or reps, or both. I don't understand your idea of sufficient functional strength, really no matter what our age, isn't it better to just get to be the best version of yourself that you can be - shoot for excellence not mediocrity, it's good for body and spirit to push what we think are our limits.

  5. #15
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    $0.02 from a kid who knows nothing about getting older:

    I've found plenty of excuses to avoid lifting heavy weights, but I found that I am happier and more satisfied with training when I accept that I will have to push myself. I've also found that holding back, even a little bit (e.g. squatting 295 when I should be squatting 305) can absolutely be the difference between making progress and not. I don't know this to be true, but I bet that that is the case all the more for older people. Either way, I'm rooting for you, grinnell.

  6. #16
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    I like Mark's and Nokian's advice. Here's a couple of anecdotes that may or may not be useful. A female client, aged 77. deadlifts 215. A male client, aged 92, deadlifts 228.

  7. #17
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    Move forward adding weight, or reps, or both. I don't understand your idea of sufficient functional strength, really no matter what our age, isn't it better to just get to be the best version of yourself that you can be - shoot for excellence not mediocrity, it's good for body and spirit to push what we think are our limits.
    Think i might print this out and post on inside cover of my paper log book. Very well said.

  8. #18
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    (OP here) Thank you all for your mostly kind words and encouragement. One of the Barbell Logic segments was extolling the strength and character building benefits of 'the grind'. One useful point I found was 'when you have a sticking point, give it 5 seconds of maximum effort before you abandon the lift'. I've used that idea to 'rescue' a lift, but I certainly don't want to be in that position deliberately.

    I've seen videos of Carson lifting on Greysteel, quite impressive. To put numbers in perspective at my age 74 181 lb male bracket, a single at my current 205 lb (triple) deadlift would be a USPA class 3 and 235lbs would be class 2. Next year at age 75, 209 would be class 2 and 237 for class 1. In the 75-79 bracket at 198 lb body weight a 327 deadlift would be International Elite class (286 for age 80+).

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by grinnell3 View Post
    To put numbers in perspective at my age 74 181 lb male bracket, a single at my current 205 lb (triple) deadlift would be a USPA class 3 and 235lbs would be class 2. Next year at age 75, 209 would be class 2 and 237 for class 1. In the 75-79 bracket at 198 lb body weight a 327 deadlift would be International Elite class (286 for age 80+).
    There you go. THIS is the benchmark population to reference yourself against. I competed in the USPA for 4-5 years and it was a great focus and driving force for my training.

    I decided to move on to competing in the Highland Games after that. You don't have quite the specific metrics for comparing your progress and achievements like in powerlifting, but throwing rocks, logs, and other heavy shit is a lot of fun.

  10. #20
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark E. Hurling View Post
    I decided to move on to competing in the Highland Games after that. You don't have quite the specific metrics for comparing your progress and achievements like in powerlifting, but throwing rocks, logs, and other heavy shit is a lot of fun.
    Just looked into this and it's very appealing! Does all the twisting trend to hurt your back?

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