Clarifications for PPST3 special populations-older lifters Clarifications for PPST3 special populations-older lifters

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Thread: Clarifications for PPST3 special populations-older lifters

  1. #1
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    Default Clarifications for PPST3 special populations-older lifters

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    60 year old male. Lifting for 3 years plus. Height 5’8” Weight 174lbs

    I really like the simplicity of the program choices offered in the final section of special population-olderlifters. Even more so than TBP.
    There are a couple of things which I would like to ask you to elaborate as I’m going to create my own template from it.

    1) older adults need breaks from very hard training.

    That makes perfect sense because we don’t recover as fast. Is this an absolute position because the suggestion in phase 3 clearly indicates a twice per week workout which seems almost too little. Will that very depending on the individual to any significant degree, or could that be three times per week ?

    2) older adults don’t benefit from high volume workouts.

    After trying different programmes I judge that to be entirely accurate except as a form of conditioning. I’ve noticed that insufficient intensity during volume work is wasted effort. I’m less breathless running up a hill though.

    Do you judge that there is sufficient volume in the ascending sets of 5/Back off method to drive real progress for any lifter ?

    I did utilise program 6A HLM in TBP which certainly improved my numbers, but particularly the squat. It didn’t work so well for the other lifts. I was coached by Andy Baker and was able to improve the other lifts considerably even on a cutting diet with substantial weight loss, but my squats went down. Then I used one of his template Texas method programs which didn’t work well for me, probably because of the high volume/low intensity work which fits with what you have written.

    3) older adults detrain very quickly....

    No questions, that’s my experience.

    4) weights must be progressed very conservatively

    Is this more rule of thumb. It seems to be pretty uniform that if you’ve been lifting for a few years big leaps don’t happen anyway.

    However, if you aren’t progressing-the first 3 questions permitting-with the very gradual approach, could it be too gradual ? Can it be changed up in some way, or should I even try ?

    My thoughts here is that I’m getting pretty close to what I think is possible for me. It might be more the case of trying to hold on to where I am, rather than making any gains. My squats are substantially lower than they were -from a high of 110Kg in 2019 to 85Kg today for reps. Yet my DL is better at 172.5Kg compared to 150Kg in 2019. Press and a bench are pretty much where they have been since 2019 with some occasional PRs and the odd set back.

    I’m going to add some accessory movements such as dips, barbell rows, chins and LTEs into the mix as they appear to have helped drive the DL and helped with the small PRs on the pressing movements. Those aren’t specifically mentioned in that section, but I’m assuming that you would approve of including them ?

    Thanks for any help given.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nockian View Post
    60 year old male. Lifting for 3 years plus. Height 5’8” Weight 174lbs
    Let's talk about this first, since the rest is irrelevant if you're not eating enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Let's talk about this first, since the rest is irrelevant if you're not eating enough.
    I had to cut back from 180lbs Mark. It was just going on my gut and my blood pressure went through the roof, which meant going back on the tablets.

    It certainly did have an impact on my squats. I was 180lbs. Looking back through my notes my squat was 110Kg @ 166lbs for a double, where as, I actually failed 105Kg at my current weight-just couldn’t shift out of the hole and eventually dropped it on the safeties.

    Final number @ 163lbs body weight February last year. Bench 87Kg single; squat 110Kg double; press 49Kg single; DL 172.5Kg single. Obviously having lost of weight I expected to lose some strength which I definitely did on the squat (I missed the big belly for bouncing me out of the hole).

    We’ve had all this Covid bollox which hasn’t helped and I ended up doing the light weight exercise session because there was no gym-and I know you said that there was every likelihood if you did that, then you’d lose strength. I’ve also had Covid-the long version. I failed the 105Kg squat at the point I became infected with it-19th November 2020. Tried training again on the 25th at lighter weights and it seemed fine, then things got worse. I had another attempt 2nd Dec which was difficult because of the coughing and sinusitis and finally got back on the 22nd Dec and have been progressing back on the rapid novice progression.

    So, yep, I take your point about eating, but it’s a damned if I do, damned if I don’t situation. Trying to walk the tightrope of just enough is vey difficult. I’ve already added 10lbs since March last year. It’s difficult to accurately gauge progress because of all the set backs, but certainly my lifts aren’t where they were at that very light body weight. 85Kg feels like very heavy, though that’s for 5x3. It’s the intensity where I’m lacking. Just can’t push the numbers back up like I thought I could. I should be doing 100Kg 5x3 at least at this body weight.

    Maybe I’m just getting old. Sorry for all of that. It’s just bloody frustrating to be stuck with such low numbers vs expectation and previous history.

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    I'm curious, when you say it was going to your gut, what was your waist circumference at 180? Were you tracking your macros then? Are you now? I also ended up cutting weight intentionally at the end of my LP. Early on I was eating enough calories but not nearly enough protein and it definitely went to my belly. Plus my sugars were high so I needed to get a handle on what I was eating. Things have been much smoother with nutrition dialed in and I've been able to gain 20 or 25 pounds in the last year. (I'm only 43, that may help).

    I'm also kind of mystified that your deadlift is double your squat. That makes me wonder what's going on with your squat, regardless of your bodyweight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt James View Post
    I'm also kind of mystified that your deadlift is double your squat. That makes me wonder what's going on with your squat, regardless of your bodyweight.
    Video?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Video?
    I assume you're asking him, not me?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt James View Post
    I'm curious, when you say it was going to your gut, what was your waist circumference at 180? Were you tracking your macros then? Are you now? I also ended up cutting weight intentionally at the end of my LP. Early on I was eating enough calories but not nearly enough protein and it definitely went to my belly. Plus my sugars were high so I needed to get a handle on what I was eating. Things have been much smoother with nutrition dialed in and I've been able to gain 20 or 25 pounds in the last year. (I'm only 43, that may help).

    I'm also kind of mystified that your deadlift is double your squat. That makes me wonder what's going on with your squat, regardless of your bodyweight.
    40” I wasn’t tracking macros then. I was very strict during the cut phase under my coach Andy Baker with very high protein, close to zero fat/sugar and just enough carbs to fill out the rest of the calories. The program he set me was intended to retain as much strength as possible and it worked well, I actually gained on all the lifts except the squat. In the middle of that program I attempted a 118Kg single, but it properly stapled me and Andy reset the weights as I was beginning to struggle. I’ve gained 10lbs over 10 months by staying relatively strict but adding some fats and extra carbs.

    I’m not mystified by the squat being lower, bearing in mind I was squatting over 100kg before all of the Covid silliness. I suspect it’s a combination of illness, insufficient intensity and mechanics. I’m just better at deadlifting. I’ve also got something going on with my hips, which is in a limiter when the squat gets heavy, there is very clearly hip shift but I’m not concerned about it. I’ve managed 116Kg to depth so it isn’t holding me back that much. My goal is 140Kg long term 120kg short term. 180Kg short term for DL and anything beyond that is a bonus-I dream of 200Kg but I hardly dare use that as a target because it seems possible and therefore horribly disappointing if I shoot and miss. Where as 140Kg on the squat seems impossible even long term.

    Thanks for your input.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Video?
    You really want to see my crappy, lopsided squat ? �� What weight. 85Kg for 4 is my next heavy squat (85Kg heavy for fucks sake, I was doing that for pause squats a few months ago). Might be a few days to figure out how to work the video thingy.

    Before I do that and just out of interest. I’ve installed my rack and there is a very slight slope downhill towards the front. It’s 1/8” between back and front. Would that make any difference ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nockian View Post
    I’ve installed my rack and there is a very slight slope downhill towards the front. It’s 1/8” between back and front. Would that make any difference ?
    Need to see the video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Need to see the video.
    Pervert �� shall I shave and oil up, or do you prefer hirsute ? ������

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    starting strength coach development program
    I prefer that if you're going to post on this board and get free help, that you do what we ask you to do.

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