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Thread: Four-Day TM, Ver 2 - Programming Questions

  1. #1
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    Default Four-Day TM, Ver 2 - Programming Questions

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    I'm attempting to make the switch from the standard TM template to the split routine model in order to better compliment my training schedule for my primary sport, track sprinting (cycling). The on-the-bike training will consist of a cycling three phases, each three-weeks in length, which are: strength, power, and speed. The intent is to mirror the on-the-bike in my gym work using a modified version of the four-day TM program--squats/pulls/legs one day, bench/press/accessories on the other--which I imagine should look something like the following using squats as the metric:

    P1 - 5x5 volume, 1x5 intensity
    P2 - 5x5 volume, 5x1 intensity
    P3 - (not sure here yet, possibly DE sets subbing for volume or intensity days)

    I'm mostly satisfied with the example programming for bench/press/accessories, largely because they aren't a priority and won't interfere with my sport. Squat/pull/leg day, on the other hand, is where I am interested in making the most modifications. So, here are my questions:

    1. How would one incorporate leg-press, RFESS, and step-ups into the programming? Thinking along the lines of sets, reps, %'s, and sequencing.
    2. I'm lacking somewhat in the shoulder mobility department--can't stabilize well enough for overhead squats/snatch catches--and would like to tack on face-pulls to bench day. Same question as above, and possibly other suggestions for programming to help with that.
    3. Is the above 3-phase idea too much YNDTP?

    I thought I had more to ask, but it's not coming to me. Thanks in advance for any help/consideration/advice.

  2. #2
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    Why do you not want to squat or deadlift?

    Why do you want to overhead squat? What makes you think you have shoulder mobility issues? Why are you considering face pulls?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattlifts View Post
    Why do you not want to squat or deadlift?
    I do want to keep squats and deadlifts in the routine, but I also want to bring in the exercises I listed as assistance work. I understand how there could have been confusion, given I wasn't explicit and didn't transcribe from the book specific the routine I was referencing.

    Quote Originally Posted by mattlifts View Post
    Why do you want to overhead squat? What makes you think you have shoulder mobility issues? Why are you considering face pulls
    I want to overhead squat, or to be able to, to incorporate Oly movements into my routine eventually for their own sake. I currently am not able to overhead squat, partly due to my inability to adequately stabilize and partly due to the fact that I can't rotate my shoulders/back enough keep bar over midfoot. Face-pulls, I've read, are supposed to help with that.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprints View Post
    I want to overhead squat, or to be able to, to incorporate Oly movements into my routine eventually for their own sake. I currently am not able to overhead squat, partly due to my inability to adequately stabilize and partly due to the fact that I can't rotate my shoulders/back enough keep bar over midfoot. Face-pulls, I've read, are supposed to help with that.
    I forget the name of this, but you can get a broomstick and hold it in front of you with a really wide grip, then slowly lift the broomstick over your head and around till it touches your back. I did this as a cure for shoulder pain a while back, starting with a really wide grip and every day taking my hands in closer. I did 50 reps every day and I got a lot more flexible. I can do an overhead squat now, although I don't train the movement.

    Why do you want to incorporate leg press? Your motivations will determine how it needs to be programmed. I know several bodybuilders who have gotten quad gains from one or two all-out sets of 15-20 reps done weekly on leg day.

    Step ups are normally done with weights too light to make you bigger and stronger for sets of 10-12, or unweighted for time at an aerobics class. What is an RFESS?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by platypus View Post
    I forget the name of this, but you can get a broomstick and hold it in front of you with a really wide grip, then slowly lift the broomstick over your head and around till it touches your back. I did this as a cure for shoulder pain a while back, starting with a really wide grip and every day taking my hands in closer. I did 50 reps every day and I got a lot more flexible. I can do an overhead squat now, although I don't train the movement.
    They're called shoulder dislocations. I bought a broomstick for this specific purpose and do them semi-regularly, but not for 50 reps. Haven't noticed any flexibility gains—this might be due to my lack of consistency—but they do sometimes aggravate my shoulders. I'll try being more regular about it and see if it helps.

    Quote Originally Posted by platypus View Post
    Why do you want to incorporate leg press? Your motivations will determine how it needs to be programmed. I know several bodybuilders who have gotten quad gains from one or two all-out sets of 15-20 reps done weekly on leg day.
    Part of my motivation to incorporate leg press again in my routine is simply to emulate what the pros do. While the specifics of their training plans are pretty guarded, I've learned of world-class track sprinters using the leg press as part of their training through various types of media; they all squat, so I know that leg press is used in addition to that, though I can't say if one takes precedent over the other and how they're programmed in. I can only speculate as to why it's also used, but my guess is that it removes the core from the equation so that the legs can be trained without being limited by core weaknesses.

    Quote Originally Posted by platypus View Post
    Step ups are normally done with weights too light to make you bigger and stronger for sets of 10-12, or unweighted for time at an aerobics class. What is an RFESS?
    Rear-foot-elevated split squats.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sprints View Post
    I do want to keep squats and deadlifts in the routine, but I also want to bring in the exercises I listed as assistance work. I understand how there could have been confusion, given I wasn't explicit and didn't transcribe from the book specific the routine I was referencing.

    I want to overhead squat, or to be able to, to incorporate Oly movements into my routine eventually for their own sake. I currently am not able to overhead squat, partly due to my inability to adequately stabilize and partly due to the fact that I can't rotate my shoulders/back enough keep bar over midfoot. Face-pulls, I've read, are supposed to help with that.
    1. How do you propose that olympic lifting will help you train for your stated purpose of sprint cycling? Will you suddenly cycle better if you overhead squat? Or, when you say "for their own sake," are you implying that you simply want to recreationally do these lifts? If it's the latter, I can only say that you'd be far better served to spend the time you'd save by avoiding the Oly lifts to focus on your sport.
    2. You have mentioned that you want to leg press because it's "what the pros do."

    Quote Originally Posted by Sprints View Post
    I can only speculate as to why it's also used, but my guess is that it removes the core from the equation so that the legs can be trained without being limited by core weaknesses.
    I don't believe you fully understand the stress, recovery, adaptation cycle. The leg press is not good substitute for the squat if you can squat. The reason being that it doesn't stress the body like the squat does, and it does not select for the greatest muscle mass used over the greatest effective range of motion. Even in cycling, your body is a system. And if you can build up your squat [a measure of maximal strength,] then each stroke of the pedal becomes more submaximal as you get stronger. I fear you are falling prey to the "sport-specificity" argument when it comes to strength training. We do not subscribe to that line of thinking. The reasoning is clearly laid out in PPST v3.

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