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Thread: Logic of Westside?

  1. #1
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    Default Logic of Westside?

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    Andy,

    I understand basic Westside programming consists of weekly increase with one heavy/difficult day for squat and bench, i.e., sounds a bit like an intermediate program. This for an advanced lifter must be grueling. Is that the reason why they choose box squats (that do not load the system as much as a regular squat would), no deadlifts except in competition (difficult to recover from) and a lot of general conditioning? How far am I correct?

  2. #2
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    The Westside system is an advanced system, not an intermediate system. As all Westside lifters have said, it's not a static program, it's a collection of principles and methods that are tailored to individuals training at Louie's gym under his guidance.

    Westside training seems to be a little less popular now as geared powerlifting is on the decline and the rise of raw/unequipped powerlifting has become more popular. The Westside system was really built for guys who competed in very heavy gear, although there are successful raw lifters who also employ the methodology. I trained at a gym for 3-4 years that was primarily a strongman gym with lots of incredibly strong lifters, everyone of which trained "westside" but tailored to strongman rather than powerlifting. No one trained in gear and they all got strong. There are two gyms here in Houston with some very strong powerlifters that pretty much do straight up westside and they produce some really strong lifters. The coaches are smart guys who know how to manipulate the system to their lifters. So, under the right circumstances the programming works very well.

    There are actually two difficult days for each lift, a max effort day for the bench and a speed/volume day for the bench and both use a high volume of exercises as assistance following the main lift. Same for Squat/Deads....one day for speed/volume where both lifts are trained and one day for max effort, usually alternating back and forth between squat/dead variations

    Box Squats mimic the effect of the squat suit and yes, they are a little easier to recover from at high volumes in my opinion. There is a lot of GPP work (sled dragging, extra workouts, high volume assistance etc) because they train with some pretty high volumes on Squat/Deads at a very fast pace and you have to be in shape to complete the workouts. Louie also believes that after a certain point that the lifts are built and improved upon by shoring up weak points with special exercises (i.e. assistance work) rather than just training the competitive lifts directly all the time. They do do a lot of regular deadlifts but mainly on their speed/volume day for fast singles. The max effort day is usually rack pulls, deficits, goodmornings, or a squat variation.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Baker (KSC) View Post
    Louie also believes that after a certain point that the lifts are built and improved upon by suring up weak points with special exercises (i.e. assistance work) rather than just training the competitive lifts directly all the time.
    The weak points are the weaker muscles in the kinematic chain of a main lift?

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    Right. Most of Louie's writings focus a great deal on triceps for the bench, and lots of direct low back / hamstring stuff for squats/deads. Important for raw lifters too, but raw guys also need alot of strength and mass in the pecs and shoulders for the bench and more quad focused stuff for squat.

  5. #5
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    Andy, have you seen DE squats working ? If yes, they could fit on a medium day as the weight is medium/lighter by default ?

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    Yes, I have, but not for everyone. They make an excellent medium day exercise. They make a good volume day exercise too for athletes who can generate enough stress with them to sub in for something like 5x5. Not everyone can do that though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Baker (KSC) View Post
    Yes, I have, but not for everyone. They make an excellent medium day exercise. They make a good volume day exercise too for athletes who can generate enough stress with them to sub in for something like 5x5. Not everyone can do that though.
    I did DE deadlifts for my HLM after I couldn't get my clean high enough to improve my deadlift. I was deadlifting 490x5 and only cleaning like 255 for doubles. What do you do for people for whom neither cleans nor DE deadlifts are viable?

  8. #8
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    In the context of an HLM program??? Usually just lighter deadlifts or Stiff Leg Deadlifts.

  9. #9
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    I had recently returned to powerlifting after many years away and trained a few different styles for two years (Hepburn, 5/3/1, etc). My deadlift was stuck at 405 for a year, squat was stuck at a 335 double for over 8 months, and the bench being my worst lift stuck at 240 for over a year.

    I decided to try Westside style programming. I didn't use box squats but did dynamic squats with bands. In the 12 weeks before the meet I only comp. squatted one time with wraps and got an easy 365. At the meet My third attempt at 391 could have been done for a set of five (i underestimated). For the bench press I did board presses, floor presses, and slingshot overloads. My third attempt at 237 could have been tripled. For deadlifting I did NO dealifts off the floor without bands. I did Block pulls at three different heights and deficit sumos as assistance. My third attempt at 425 could have been tripled. Overall for the first 12 week cycle (if I had picked higher numbers) I added 50 pounds each to the squat and deadlift, and 10 to the bench.

    I am now in the second cycle and beginning to incorporate box squats (alternating with free squats every three weeks). My deadift and bench training are the same.

    The method is an advanced method in that you need to be able to self assess constantly, sometimes in real time. You also need to experiment with the recommended percentages. The percentage elected should be based on bar speed. In my case I get the best effect at 60-63% in the squat, 40-45% in the bench and 70% in the deadlift.

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Baker (KSC) View Post
    The Westside system is an advanced system, not an intermediate system. As all Westside lifters have said, it's not a static program, it's a collection of principles and methods that are tailored to individuals training at Louie's gym under his guidance.
    There's a good write up on the RTS site by Blaine Sumner about his recent week spent training at Westside with Louie. It's an enjoyable read.

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