Advanced Novice Programming for 6'4 243lbs male - Deadlift Frequency

[grand666]

Hi,

I've been running LP for about 12 weeks now after I healed up from surgery. For once in the last couple years I went to see a coach about my shoulder problems and decided to run LP according to the book. I've always fucked around, shoulder issues came up, laid off, came back, rinse and repeat.

Today, I can say that I've been running LP to the book(OHP and B got late starts) and the progress is amazing. Apart from my Bench and OHP, my numbers look good but I'm running into a problem with Deadlifts where I can't do 1 x 5 anymore. It's heavy as shit. Here is a sample of my last two weeks on LP:

Monday	Wednesday	Friday
SQ: 3x5 @ 325lbs	SQ: 3x5 @ 250lbs	SQ: 3x5 @ 330lbs
B: 3x5 @ 195lbs	OHP: 3x5 @ 115lbs	B: 3x5 @ 200lbs
DL: 1x5 @ 415lbs	Chins: 5,5,5 (35lbs)	DL: 1x5 @ 420lbs

Monday	Wednesday	Friday
SQ: 3x5 @ 335lbs	SQ: 3x5 @ 255lbs	SQ: 3x5 @ 340lbs
OHP: 3x5 @ 120lbs	B: 3x5 @ 205	OHP: 3x5 @ 125lbs
Chins: 10,8/7 (BW)	DL: 2x3 @ 425lbs	Chins: 5,4,4 (35lbs)

Stats:
Male, 6'4, 243lbs, 31yo (Base strength was higher than complete Novice, started LP at 185lbs on Squats)

Notes:
After seeing a coach, it was confirmed I'm a snowflake. I have almost no external rotation in my shoulders. I was put on a high-low bar squat version and lots of mobility stuff to do. So far it's going great. OHP was 3 x 10 with the bar for weeks while focussing on the tendonitis to go away. OHP got a late start. Bench, had grip problem on my right hand. It was reset by alot to get the grip sorted out.


Questions I need help with:

1. On page 95 in PP I believe, it shows the example advanced novice programming with deadlift every fifth workout. Currently I"ve been alternating deads every other workout. On weeks that it falls on squats, it beats me the fuck up. Is deadlifting every fifth workout really enough to drive my deadlift up?
2. Is it a good idea to split heavy deads up into two sets of three like I did on my latest deadlift day? If not, why not and alternate suggestions?
3. Is it a good idea to deadlift only on my light squat days for instance, once a week is still better than every fifth workout and enough?
4. If the above is not doable or advisable, what suggestions do you guys have so I can keep my LP going and make my deads go up.


Goals:

Squat 405lbs by December.
Deadlift 500lbs by December.
Take it easy on the food and keep my weight at 240lbs for the remainder of the program. I track calories now and only lifting days get tons of food.

Going back to Jayson end of October to make sure form is still good and I'm on track for my two goals above.

I plan on pushing LP till it's maxed out by employing the techniques in the PP book. First method will be one heavy set and two back off sets. If that runs out I'll switch to 3x3 and lower frequency. I'm hoping to hit that squat and deadlift goal this year.

Thanks guys.

[Ben Patterson]

1. Yes

2. I wouldn't at this stage for a male lifter.

3. You could do that.

4. I'd probably plan to deadlift on Monday (after a longer recovery period) or Friday (before longer recovery period), do chin-ups on Wednesday, and a lighter pull on the other day. Lighter pulls include power cleans (if your shoulders tolerate the rack position), power snatch, or even a lighter deadlift (3x5 at 70% of your heavy sets).

[Adam Franklin]

Since you saw a coach, I'm going to assume form is good (this is always step 1, btw.)

I would recommend deadlifitng first on Wednesday, and squatting last. Work up to a top set of 5 on deads, adding 5lbs each week. After a tops set of five, do a back off set of 5 at about 10% off of your top set. You will make progress for a few weeks, but once you stall again, switch to a top set of 3-4, with 2 back off sets of 4, both at about 10% off of the top set. Chin on Monday and row/PC on Friday or vice versa.

The "so what" is as a novice, you can make progress on your deads using DL intensity and low bar squat progress alone to drive your DL. However, you will eventually need more pulling volume to drive your deadlift. That's where the back off sets come in. If you deload, and keep repeating a top set of 5, or 2x3, you are not increasing your volume and will shortly stall again.

Wednesday is a light/recovery squat day anyway, so there is no downside to squatting last. Deadlifting first means you will be better rested, and should be able to perform better.

This is not in PP btw, but I have used this scheme myself, and with clients.

[Dlk93]

1) Yep, until it isn't anymore.
2) If you switch to deadlifting once every 5th workout then I'd just stick with fahves. But whenever DL's fall on a heavy squat day and doing both heavy squats and heavy fahves on the DL are "beating the shit out of you," sure do 2x3's. Just as long as your fahve's are going up.
3) You could try to deadlift only on light squat days instead of every fifth workout, and put deadlifts (1x5) at the beginning of the workout. If that's too stressful then switch to the once-every-fifth option.
4) If heavy deadlifting only once every fifth workout isn't making your deadlift go up then you might want to consider incorporating a light/medium pulling day, i.e. move your DL over to intermediate programming.


Lastly, I see a lot chins in your programming. Maybe you could sub/add in some sort of light pulling variant, or lower back/hamstring exercise (not cleans probably, bc of your shoulder).

Hope those ideas help, and I'm interested to see what others have to say.

[grand666]

Thanks guys I appreciate the quick feedback in time for my workout today.

Dealifting on Monday makes sense since it's after a weekend, but having done this for a few time where it's both on Monday, it beats me the hell up and I can barely finish deads.

I like the suggestion of Deadlifting on Wednesday first thing. I'll try it this week and see how it goes only doing Chins Mondays. Is there a benefit of rowing over chins on Fridays or is it just for the sake of not doing Chins twice a week? I ask because I used 35lbs one workout, then I'd do bodyweight the next and see if I can make the numbers go up.

Would it be a waste if I did chins Monday with 35lbs, and bodyweight on Fridays?

[Dlk93]

If you did some heavy Pendlay Rows that could serve as a light pulling variant that's more specific to Deadz, and thus could help them. So I like your suggestion to add them in on Fridays.

[grand666]

Thanks. Stupid question, but is the Pendlay different from the Row that Rip showed couple weeks back in a video?

[Dlk93]

Nah same thing

[Greg Ruhl]

Questions I need help with:

1. On page 95 in PP I believe, it shows the example advanced novice programming with deadlift every fifth workout. Currently I"ve been alternating deads every other workout. On weeks that it falls on squats, it beats me the fuck up. Is deadlifting every fifth workout really enough to drive my deadlift up?
2. Is it a good idea to split heavy deads up into two sets of three like I did on my latest deadlift day? If not, why not and alternate suggestions?
3. Is it a good idea to deadlift only on my light squat days for instance, once a week is still better than every fifth workout and enough?
4. If the above is not doable or advisable, what suggestions do you guys have so I can keep my LP going and make my deads go up.

1) Yes. But I would DL heavy 1/wk at this point where heavy is a set of 5 and maybe a backoff set of 5 if you need more volume.
2) I haven't gotten stronger on 3x2. It's a good way to "polish" as you lead up to heavy singles to test where you're at.
3) I greatly prefer DL on my light squat day and DL heavy first (more warmup!) and squat last.
4) Try DL 1/wk on your light squat day. Do some other pull variation on the other days (e.g. PC on your medium squat day and snatch or Pendlay rows on your heavy squat day). DL variants (lighter DLs, 1" paused, haltings, etc. SGDL, etc.) are also good ways of keeping the intensity up but the volume low.

[Mugaaz]

Deadlifting 1 set of 5 once a week took me to low 400s before it stopped working. I tried adding additional backoff sets after the heavy set of 5 to get more volume, but this did not help very much. I stalled again pretty soon. I added a second DL volume day for 3 sets of 5 at 90% of whatever my best set of 5 was and it started moving again. I feel like the limit set of 5 DL doesn't really allow you to add in much volume in the same session via backoffs without overdoing it, whereas a 2nd day with medium weight set across is a ton more volume and also increased frequency.