Back after 4-year layoff, what's wrong with me

[timelinex]

Hey, I appreciate the motivational speech, but I think you've got me figured wrong. Believe it or not I have trained very hard in my life -- I was a long distance runner for many years (probably contributed to my thin physique). What I haven't done that much of is a targeted strength training program such as this. Which is why I'm here asking questions. You are saying, basically, I'm being a wimp. Well I don't mind being called a wimp by someone who conflates a conservative approach to injuries with "garbage," but in this case it's not that helpful.

Maybe I didn't explain it well, but I do know what feels like normal pain and soreness vs what feels like an injury, and while my sensitivity to that fine line may not be as sophisticated as yours, I've seen other guys get laid up for weeks or months when they kept pushing it with what was originally a minor injury. Heck, it's why I gave up running. After training through "minor" foot and knee problems for years, I caused irreparable damage to my feet and knees. Which brings me back to strength training. Yes my knees hurt after doing squats, but again, I know the difference between minor aches and potential injuries.

What I am looking for is a way to keep training as hard as possible while not missing workouts from repeated injuries.

Sounds good man. I apologize if I mis-characterized you. We can only go off what people share.... Most people have a much bigger problem of being afraid to be sore, then over doing things.... So without any further information, thats what I would assume.

The only thing I would add is that strength training is a different animal than long distance running. Things hurt in different ways and for different reasons. Long distance sports injuries are probably over use injuries that onset slowly. While alot of the strength training injuries are acute. For example if you were sore in your neck area for 2 days and then the 3rd it went away.... I still stand by what I said. Shit happens. Things are moved the wrong way. If it went away a few days later, do you really think you "injured" something? It's no reason not to train on...

On the other hand, there are over use injuries in strength training as well and I think most people go through them. It's the damn tendonitis that most people have issues with on and off. But these things aren't overnight and you can keep training just as hard, while adjusting and figuring out what's causing them. I've screwed the pooch on this many times.

[Chris McBride]

Well, like I said I am already at 19% body fat, and I have been eating to the point of discomfort pretty much daily. Here's an example of my daily diet:

Breakfast: 1 cup(dry) rolled oats + a handful of raisins, walnuts, 1 banana, 1/2 an apple, 2 heaping Tbs of full-fat yogurt
Snack: 2 pc WW toast+PB before workout
Lunch (after workout): 3 whole eggs + spinach, or whole chicken breast + spinach, hummus, tomato in a large tortilla
Snack: varies, but often granola w almond milk, or a hardboiled egg, or ~11 tortilla chips and hummus
Dinner: usually either chicken, beef, pork loin, or rice+beans, and some kind of starch like brown rice or potatoes. Plus veggies.
Before bed: I recently added this meal--so far it's been either WW toast, muesli, or whatever is in the fridge.

My hope is that if I keep upping the weight each workout even by smaller intervals I will gain muscle weight and my body fat % will stay the same or get lower. Is that silly?

This jumps out to me as an insufficient protein intake, particularly at breakfast, snacks, and your pre-bed meal. That’s going to be bad for recovery and bad for efficient lean mass gains.

[Charlie Davies]

This jumps out to me as an insufficient protein intake, particularly at breakfast, snacks, and your pre-bed meal. That’s going to be bad for recovery and bad for efficient lean mass gains.

Yeah, that diet seems appropriate for an endurance runner, not a lifter. Lots of carbs, not very high in protein.

Try this:

Breakfast: 1/2 cup dry oats, 1 apple, heaping Tbs peanut butter, raisins, 1 heaping scoop of whey protein isolate, 1/4th cup milk
Lunch: 5 scrambled eggs, 1 steamed potato, veggies
Dinner: 1 chicken breast, rice & beans, veggies
Bedtime snack: 1 cup milk, 1 cup granola, nuts, 1 heaping scoop of whey protein isolate, blueberries

Note the bolded parts which are each your ideal 30+ grams of protein you want to get 3-4 times per day.

[ricepounder]

Yeah, that diet seems appropriate for an endurance runner, not a lifter. Lots of carbs, not very high in protein.

Try this:

Breakfast: 1/2 cup dry oats, 1 apple, heaping Tbs peanut butter, raisins, 1 heaping scoop of whey protein isolate, 1/4th cup milk
Lunch: 5 scrambled eggs, 1 steamed potato, veggies
Dinner: 1 chicken breast, rice & beans, veggies
Bedtime snack: 1 cup milk, 1 cup granola, nuts, 1 heaping scoop of whey protein isolate, blueberries

Note the bolded parts which are each your ideal 30+ grams of protein you want to get 3-4 times per day.

Cool, so basically add whey and eat fewer carbs. Do you eat more carbs on workout days vs. non?

The following is just interesting (to me) stuff, comparing PB and fat-free plain Greek yogurt (which has more protein apparently than full-fat--weird).

I just read this online somewhere: "According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture...Eight ounces of nonfat, plain Greek yogurt has 130 calories, 23 grams of protein, no fat, 9 grams of carbohydrates and sugar, and 250 milligrams of calcium."

My very unchecked math (based on Google saying PB has 57 grams/protein per 8 oz.) means that 2.5 Tbs yogurt = 1 Tbs PB. Both have the same amt. of carbs per Tbs. So eating 2.5 Tbs yogurt instead of 1 Tbs PB = same amt. of Protein, same amt. of carbs. I didn't compare the fat but presumably there is more in PB than non-fat Yogurt.

I almost always eat at least 2 Tbs/day of PB and probably the same amt of Yogurt. Using plain non-fat yogurt that works out to about 40 grams/protein and 6 grams/carbs. Feel free to correct if you think my math is off.

[Charlie Davies]

ricepounder, I'm not a diet expert by any means. I gathered my info mostly from Jordan Feigenbaum's posts here and on his website.

My personal diet is about what I put in the post above.

I don't count calories, but my results for the last 14 months are that my weight is up 10 lbs or so with no change to my waist size. My family has noticed I look stronger.

[Frankie]

I would double down with what the smarter people above me posted, especially Adam Skillin.

I did want to add a completely bit of anecdotal, non scientific personal experience. The few times I have had extended layoffs and returned even when my form was good and my recovery was good and my programming was good and I wasn't being stupid I found myself getting hurt (the bad kind of hurt) more commonly than I would after I had been grinding for a few months. I always figured it was some bro science thing about "your neurology is adapted to lifting heavy weights from past experience but your soft tissue is not necessarily at the same well-seasoned place it previously was, even if the weight is actually moving and sets are getting completed it just seemed like a gasket would pop someplace for no apparent reason during a warm up, or loading a bar or something.

I'm not going to argue this is a well supported genuine physiological phenomena, but it happened to me enough times to make me take notice. As a result I am extra cautious whenever coming back, I intentionally slow myself down. Add 2.5 instead of 5 or do an extra couple sets instead of increasing weight this session, make sure you are plenty hydrated and sugared up, take an extra minute rest. When the strains do inevitably come assuming you are not doing anything stupid (big assumption, but that's your call) be sure to continue training around them. Continue doing the program and trust the process.

My rule for training around injuries: if the movement hurts don't do it, skip it and do something else but don't stop the program. If it doesn't start getting better on it's own in 2 weeks seek a form check from a coach. If that doesn't help see another coach. If that doesn't help seek medical treatment.

Your diet really does sound pretty Alicia Silverstone though and is a prime suspect (Almond milk? 11 tortilla chips and hummus? Fuck me). No one gets strong eating like that. Eat some red meat, smoke some ribs, fry some chicken wings. Have a cheese sandwich and drink some beer. By all means have the 11 or 12 tortilla chips afterwards for dessert, I love hummus too.

[ricepounder]

I would double down with what the smarter people above me posted, especially Adam Skillin.

I did want to add a completely bit of anecdotal, non scientific personal experience. The few times I have had extended layoffs and returned even when my form was good and my recovery was good and my programming was good and I wasn't being stupid I found myself getting hurt (the bad kind of hurt) more commonly than I would after I had been grinding for a few months. I always figured it was some bro science thing about "your neurology is adapted to lifting heavy weights from past experience but your soft tissue is not necessarily at the same well-seasoned place it previously was, even if the weight is actually moving and sets are getting completed it just seemed like a gasket would pop someplace for no apparent reason during a warm up, or loading a bar or something.

I'm not going to argue this is a well supported genuine physiological phenomena, but it happened to me enough times to make me take notice. As a result I am extra cautious whenever coming back, I intentionally slow myself down. Add 2.5 instead of 5 or do an extra couple sets instead of increasing weight this session, make sure you are plenty hydrated and sugared up, take an extra minute rest. When the strains do inevitably come assuming you are not doing anything stupid (big assumption, but that's your call) be sure to continue training around them. Continue doing the program and trust the process.

My rule for training around injuries: if the movement hurts don't do it, skip it and do something else but don't stop the program. If it doesn't start getting better on it's own in 2 weeks seek a form check from a coach. If that doesn't help see another coach. If that doesn't help seek medical treatment.

Your diet really does sound pretty Alicia Silverstone though and is a prime suspect (Almond milk? 11 tortilla chips and hummus? Fuck me). No one gets strong eating like that. Eat some red meat, smoke some ribs, fry some chicken wings. Have a cheese sandwich and drink some beer. By all means have the 11 or 12 tortilla chips afterwards for dessert, I love hummus too.

Ha ha, thanks Frankie, all good points.

Since writing that I have switched up my diet quite a bit. One reason I was doing the Almond milk etc. was because when I was doing GOMAD (which I did religiously the first time I did the SSLP, and it did help a lot) my stomach was never happy and I got wicked indigestion all the time. Since I re-started about a month ago I have gained about 2-4 lbs. and 2-3% body fat, which makes me think I am gaining mostly fat (?). However I am consistently putting more weight on the bar although in smaller increments (sometimes as little as 2-lb jumps, especially with press and BP). I'm currently 172, @ 5'11", with 20% body fat. Everyone says "put on more weight" but I am a bit of a hard muscle gainer. Thin guy with massive beer gut is not really what I am going for. I used to be able to eat anything and everything with no change in body fat (was a runner) but as I approach mid-30s and try to pack in more food, all my visible gains go straight to the gut.

I started tracking my macros and a typical day is something like 172/105/96 for protein/carbs/fat. I do eat more carbs on lift days. This is after consciously trying to lower carbs a bit and pump up the protein since I noticed my body fat creeping towards 20%. It has continued creeping and may surpass 20% in a couple of days, I don't know. Maybe I should do some cardio. But everyone tells me to eat protein equal to body weight in grams, which is hard to do without eating a ton of carbs. Even milk and yogurt have a lot.

Right now, after coming back from the injury, I am at:

Squat 190 x 5 x 3
Press 95 x 5 x 3
DL 215 x 5
BP 125 x 5 x 3

In other words, in about 4 weeks I am back where I was when I stopped SSLP the first time. I also added dips as an auxiliary exercise and I just do 3 sets to failure, Friday was 11/9/8.

I am not as concerned about the "image" of getting fat, but over 20% body fat just seems silly.

[Frankie]

Ha ha, thanks Frankie, all good points.

Since writing that I have switched up my diet quite a bit. One reason I was doing the Almond milk etc. was because when I was doing GOMAD (which I did religiously the first time I did the SSLP, and it did help a lot) my stomach was never happy and I got wicked indigestion all the time. Since I re-started about a month ago I have gained about 2-4 lbs. and 2-3% body fat, which makes me think I am gaining mostly fat (?). However I am consistently putting more weight on the bar although in smaller increments (sometimes as little as 2-lb jumps, especially with press and BP). I'm currently 172, @ 5'11", with 20% body fat. Everyone says "put on more weight" but I am a bit of a hard muscle gainer. Thin guy with massive beer gut is not really what I am going for. I used to be able to eat anything and everything with no change in body fat (was a runner) but as I approach mid-30s and try to pack in more food, all my visible gains go straight to the gut.

I started tracking my macros and a typical day is something like 172/105/96 for protein/carbs/fat. I do eat more carbs on lift days. This is after consciously trying to lower carbs a bit and pump up the protein since I noticed my body fat creeping towards 20%. It has continued creeping and may surpass 20% in a couple of days, I don't know. Maybe I should do some cardio. But everyone tells me to eat protein equal to body weight in grams, which is hard to do without eating a ton of carbs. Even milk and yogurt have a lot.

Right now, after coming back from the injury, I am at:

Squat 190 x 5 x 3
Press 95 x 5 x 3
DL 215 x 5
BP 125 x 5 x 3

In other words, in about 4 weeks I am back where I was when I stopped SSLP the first time. I also added dips as an auxiliary exercise and I just do 3 sets to failure, Friday was 11/9/8.

I am not as concerned about the "image" of getting fat, but over 20% body fat just seems silly.

My advice, and I only reiterate because you have clearly got an eye for the details and seem to care. I am not a part of the Starting Strength Fat Acceptance Brigade, but believe me you are nowhere close to enough calories. Like, you could double that intake. You need fats. Animal fats. A grown man with a 215lb deadlift set is not acceptable - once you make that a 440 DL in a few months (a very modest expectation) I swear you will not be mistaken for anyone with anything resembling a beer gut.

You seem like you are approaching this diligently so I suspect you will find your path there one way or another.

[wiigelec]

But everyone tells me to eat protein equal to body weight in grams, which is hard to do without eating a ton of carbs

Meat?

[Nockian]

Sounds like you just got older. 33 is still young, but no where near as elastic as being 20. As long as your training things keep strong and relatively supple, but you cannot stop the ageing. It's like a tortoise creeping behind the hare; when you stop, the tortoise catches up rapidly.

A lot of injuries seem to occur outside of the actual lifts-picking up weights, putting them on the bar etc, because we are less guarded at the time it's easy to lift wrong by twisting the spine out of alignment with very low amounts of weight. Overreaching will do it. The very flexible twenty something you might get away with it, but the 33 year old had better be a lot more wary. When you get much older, then you have to take much greater care, but at 33 you are remembering yourself as you once were and it's possible to make the mistake that things haven't changed much-they have.