What Training Level?

[wiigelec]

What training level (novice, intermediate) would you consider the following progression:

Week 1
Day 1 - 3 x 5
Day 2 - 3 x 3
Day 3 - 3 x 1

Week 2
Day 1 - 3 x 5 (+5)
Day 2 - 3 x 3 (+5)
Day 3 - 3 x 1 (+5)

Would you consider this novice progression because you are setting PRs every session, or intermediate progression because you are setting rep PRs on a weekly basis?

[whale]

Well, intermediate. This will work after you've done SSLP but this is called peaking or tapering. Remember what Rip said, FAHVES develop strength. Moving to singles and doubles will just test your strength.

[Particle]

Indeed. How is total training stress, as a combination of intensity, volume and frequency, going up on average over time? Within the week you are trading volume for intensity (you could set all kinds of different rep PRs from session to session without getting stronger), while the next week the intensity has gone up on all sessions compared to the previous week. So it's weekly progression.

[Dalton Clark]

Novice means that you were able to set a PR on the exact same workout 2 days after the previous. You are comparing apples to apples as a novice not apples to oranges.

[Charlie Davies]

Increasing the weight weekly meets SS definition of an "intermediate" program.
This particular program is quite low-volume, even more so than Texas Method.

Pretty sure it wouldn't work for me, other than as a short "peaking" program to let me get a lot of 1RM practice.
From experience, I respond well to a mix of many sets at moderate intensity and a few sets at high intensity.

But I'm not you, and I'm not a coach. Try it and see?

[wiigelec]

Novice:

To be most effective and efficient at improving strength for novices, a program must progressively increase training load as rapidly as the novice recovers from the overload event - a period of time that experience has proven to be 48-72 hours.

- PPST3

Progress:

You can't always just look at load as a factor of progression.

- Andy Baker Double progression methode usefull for off season?

Sample progression let's say squat:
...
290 x 5 x 3 (progress more weight)
295 x 5 x 3 (progress more weight)
300 x 5 x 3 (progress more weight)
305 x 3 x 3 (progress more weight)
310 x 1 x 3 (progress more weight)
305 x 5 x 3 (progress more reps)
310 x 3 x 3 (progress more reps)
315 x 1 x 3 (progress more weight)
310 x 5 x 3 (progress more reps)
315 x 3 x 3 (progress more reps)
320 x 1 x 3 (progress more weight)
...

Semantically speaking:
So assuming each of these workouts occurs in the 48 - 72 hour novice window I would say this qualifies as a "novice progression".

[wiigelec]

But I'm not you, and I'm not a coach. Try it and see?

Thanks Charlie I have used some similar methods with some success and have started using this method we'll see how it works for me. I'm really only looking for an argument on semantics

But I am also interested in general effectiveness beyond myself, and also who this type of progression may be suitable for...

[Brian Goldstein]

Novice:


Progress:


Sample progression let's say squat:
...
290 x 5 x 3 (progress more weight)
295 x 5 x 3 (progress more weight)
300 x 5 x 3 (progress more weight)
305 x 3 x 3 (progress more weight)
310 x 1 x 3 (progress more weight)
305 x 5 x 3 (progress more reps)
310 x 3 x 3 (progress more reps)
315 x 1 x 3 (progress more weight)
310 x 5 x 3 (progress more reps)
315 x 3 x 3 (progress more reps)
320 x 1 x 3 (progress more weight)
...

Semantically speaking:
So assuming each of these workouts occurs in the 48 - 72 hour novice window I would say this qualifies as a "novice progression".

yup.

Step wise like that is a good 'bridge' to more true intermediate programming. Though, for what its worth, I see step progression like that recommended more for the pressing exercises after a reset during LP, rather than the model for all of the exercises.

[Dalton Clark]

Semantically, you can't compare the vast majority of this progression. You are also not understanding the proper application of a double progression. For it to qualify as proper novice programming, you must progressively increase the loading every training day. If we use tonnage as a proxy for total load, you will see that this progression does not constantly increase the tonnage every workout.

290x5x3 = 4350
295x5x3 = 4425
300x5x3 = 4500
305x3x3 = 2745
310x1x3 = 930
305x5x3 = 4575
310x3x3 = 2790
315x1x3 = 945
310x5x3 = 4650
315x3x3 = 2835
320x1x3 = 960

You see very easily that the reason the lifter is able to lift heavier weights is because he is doing fewer of them. When you drop the reps and sets and lift a heavier load, you can't say that you got stronger. You just did a different thing that may or may not be equivalent in load to what you did previously. It is suitable for intermediates. . .because it is intermediate programming.
.

[wiigelec]

When you drop the reps and sets and lift a heavier load, you can't say that you got stronger.

Why not? Isn't lifting a heavier load the definition of "stronger"?

Strength:

When you deadlift a bar, we measure your strength by the weight of the bar your overcome when it leaves the ground.

- PPST3 pg 31

Emphasis mine