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Thread: High rack pulls on HLM

  1. #1
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    Default High rack pulls on HLM

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    Ok so I hurt my forearm (doing curls!!!) and I can't work on elbow flexion for a few weeks.

    I was looking into getting most of my back volume from rack pulls, around knee height and with a snatch grip.

    Setup as follows:
    Heavy: SQ 6RM/4RM/2RM + 2 back-offs, idem for DL.
    Light: Front SQ 3x6/4/2 + RACK PULLS (I used to do BB rows)
    Medium: SQ 3x6/4/2 + idem Snatch grip DL.


    Is that too crazy?? Are rack pulls, even when pulled pretty high from the rack, always a heavy day choice?

  2. #2
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    If you do these heavy it is not likely to work well. Rack Pulls take a lot out of the tank and produce a ton of localized fatigue in the low back that takes a long time to get rid of. I've never had any success with clients or myself doing rack pulls any more than once every other week and that is going to be your heavy pulling movement for the week.

  3. #3
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    I'd also add (if I may be so bold), that RP's are super easy to over train. You need to be careful when programming/performing them, and stick to your program (i.e. don't add another set because "I feel like I have another set or two in me", or you'll pay for it the next day).

    IME RP's get our motivation up, due to being able to pull a lot more than a standard deadlift, but therein lies the pitfall of RP's. We tend to push too hard on them as we get psyched up, and end up psuhing the stress well over what we can recover from, which then hampers the rest of our program.

    Perhaps it's just me, but that has been my experience (and I like RP's; they're my favorite movement). JMTCW...

  4. #4
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    What an honour to have none other than fucking ex-mod Andy Baker answer my message. I take into account what you both said about rack pulls being very difficult to recover from.

    I guess my follow up question would be whether the height from which one pulls has any effect on the amount of stress incurred. Isn't the classic (and perhaps already surpassed) model of weekly alternating halting DLs and rack pulls meant to be less stressful than pulling for the full ROM each week?

    Does it matter at all from a fatigue management standpoint to pull 2 inches from the floor versus mid-thigh?

  5. #5
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    Not andy, obviously but:

    Yes, the height matters somewhat because of ROM. From what I've seen/read/experienced - a rack pull above knee height is an exercise in vanity that tends to also form a bad hitching habit on heavy, full DLs. I think the prudent thing would be to keep rack pulls at mid-shin to just below knee height because you still want to use proper mechanics, and incorporate heavy shrugs - which despite the massive increase in weight won't be as stressful because of the limited ROM.

    I think the halting/rack pull one week and DL the next could work, depending on the dosage. If you are loading halting or rack pulls are on the order of your full DL's 1 or 3rm for a set of 5, then they should be programmed like your heavy deadlifts.

    Alternatively, the bridge uses rack pulls from mid shin for sets of 7 as a lighter deadlift variation. These are no where near the DL 1RM in terms of load, so the fatigue generated is a result of the volume from the higher rep sets.

  6. #6
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    I think the question of fatigue when it comes to deadlifts and its variants is dependent on your overall approach to pulling. There are two schools of thought I've seen from the coaches here:

    1. Deadlifts are uniquely fatiguing. They are done infrequently, such as a single set of 5, once a week. You do them very heavy. Might add some supplemental pulls and/or back-offs if necessary.
    2. Deadlifts can be trained like any other lift, with much higher volume.

    If you are in camp 1, then fatigue will indeed be an issue. Pulling a 5RM can generate a lot of fatigue. Pulling is thus not done as frequently, and sometimes even split into haltings/rack pulls.

    If you are in camp 2, then fatigue might not be as much of an issue. Pulling 3x5, for example, at a lower intensity, doesn't necessarily generate any more fatigue than say a heavy stress squat day.

    It just depends on what approach you want to take.

  7. #7
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    I think you're leaving out the detail of what kind of program people are on. A three day split with squats everyday is an entirely different animal than a four day split with light and heavy days as far as stress/fatigue go.

    I started out lifting (before I found SS) on a four day split (one major heavy lift per day) and managed DL's 3x6. But, I plateau'ed as the weight got heavy (for me). When switching to a 3 day split with SS, I saw increases in DL again.

    My point is that DL frequency is nuanced (yea, I got to use that word on here!) by the program you're following; or at least that has been my experience.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarinePMI View Post
    I think you're leaving out the detail of what kind of program people are on. A three day split with squats everyday is an entirely different animal than a four day split with light and heavy days as far as stress/fatigue go.

    I started out lifting (before I found SS) on a four day split (one major heavy lift per day) and managed DL's 3x6. But, I plateau'ed as the weight got heavy (for me). When switching to a 3 day split with SS, I saw increases in DL again.

    My point is that DL frequency is nuanced (yea, I got to use that word on here!) by the program you're following; or at least that has been my experience.
    I don't think that matters, in my opinion. If you manage the intensity, you can squat frequently, and do almost as much pulling without a problem. You don't need to be on a heavy/light split or some lower squat routine to pull at a high volume. The key thing is not to pull at too high an intensity. If you're always approaching deadlifts with the mindset of very high intensity, then you cannot do them for volume.

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