Deadlift Frequency for Practice?

[Eric Schexnayder]

Hi Brent,

I'm a male, 29, 218 lbs, 6'3". My current successful 3x5 lifts are SQ 220, PR 120, BP 175, DL 235, PC 145.

The Deadlift is easily my weakest lift, and I'd like to get in some more practice without overdoing it. Right now I'm deadlifting MF (per Andy Baker) trying to get the weight up. I'm doing Power Cleans every Wednesday; I'm pretty sure I introduced these too early in the program given the small difference between my deadlift and my squat.

I believe (though not verified by any SS coach) that my biggest problem is breaking off the floor. I attempted 245 this morning and got 1 rep before I couldn't even budge the bar. I've read that Deficits, Haltings, and Paused Deadlifts can help with this.

Should I continue doing Power Cleans or should I try some of these Deadlift Variations? If so, how should I program them? Or is it better to just stop all Pulls except for the Deadlift until the weight is "well ahead" of the squat again as per Phase 1?

Thanks for your time.

[Brent Carter]

What kind of grip are you using and are you using chalk?

If you can't make 10lb jumps go ahead and take 5lb jumps. Don't worry about where your DL is to your squat for now. Given enough time it will even itself out.

You DON'T need exercise variation at this point. Nothing is as effective for your overall pulling strength as the conventional DL so your pulling focus should be on that. It's not a big deal if you introduced the PC early. Again, given enough time it will take care of itself and even out.

[Eric Schexnayder]

What kind of grip are you using and are you using chalk?

I am using the double overhand grip with chalk.

If you can't make 10lb jumps go ahead and take 5lb jumps. Don't worry about where your DL is to your squat for now. Given enough time it will even itself out.

You DON'T need exercise variation at this point. Nothing is as effective for your overall pulling strength as the conventional DL so your pulling focus should be on that. It's not a big deal if you introduced the PC early. Again, given enough time it will take care of itself and even out.

Simple enough. I'll stick to the Cleans and Deadlifts for now. I'm glad to hear that I can keep it simple.

[Brent Carter]

Switch to a mixed or hook grip if you start to fail. Odds are you will be able to lock it out when you change your grip up.

[Eric Schexnayder]

Switch to a mixed or hook grip if you start to fail. Odds are you will be able to lock it out when you change your grip up.

I'll give that a shot. I also got some feedback from around the forum that my shin angle may be too vertical (bar too close in step 1), not allowing me to use as much quad to help break the bar off the floor. I've played with this it a little and it definitely feels easier for now.

Thanks for your help!

[jbackos]

I'm probably going to get flamed here but here goes. Why are we having trainees performing power cleans when they haven't mastered basic pulling mechanics and can barely deadlift their own bodyweight? Why not use a 2 day a week deadlift program comprised on one volume day, and one technique day using a cycled number of singles at intermediate weight (70-85%)? Any comments are appreciated.

Regarding the pull off the floor, I discovered that as my block pull poundage increased, my pull off the floor became stronger and my starting position improved. I used to believe that deficits were required to improve the initial pull but have changed my position, now believing that the pull off the floor is weak, then it is usually the lower back/core (sorry) which is weak and that training the legs by doing deficits or trap bar lifts will only exacerbate the issue. Understandably this may be peculiar to my situation but am curious if anyone else had a similar experience.

[Brent Carter]

I'm probably going to get flamed here but here goes. Why are we having trainees performing power cleans when they haven't mastered basic pulling mechanics and can barely deadlift their own bodyweight? Why not use a 2 day a week deadlift program comprised on one volume day, and one technique day using a cycled number of singles at intermediate weight (70-85%)? Any comments are appreciated.

Regarding the pull off the floor, I discovered that as my block pull poundage increased, my pull off the floor became stronger and my starting position improved. I used to believe that deficits were required to improve the initial pull but have changed my position, now believing that the pull off the floor is weak, then it is usually the lower back/core (sorry) which is weak and that training the legs by doing deficits or trap bar lifts will only exacerbate the issue. Understandably this may be peculiar to my situation but am curious if anyone else had a similar experience.

It is not required that you "master" pulling mechanics prior to learning the clean. You need to get it good enough, then we can teach you the clean. We do it this way at EVERY seminar. As far as to when to add the the powerclean: if you end up adding the powerclean a little early (thus DL going from 3d/wk to 2 d/wk) it's really not a big deal in the long run. It will all even out given enough time. As to cycling singles: Why? Why this added complexity when we really just need to get this dude strong by your own admission "can barely deadlift their own bodyweight? " and at this stage 5's do that better than anything else.

Once you have progressed well into the stages of intermediate training your assistance exercises will need to be tailored to the individual. If you find that block pulls help you, awesome. I think it is a great assistance lift for those that struggle with the lockout. When you do a deficit it's not just "training the legs". The greater ROM also means that the start position has the lifter with a more horizontal back angle (similar to a SLDL but not as exaggerated) thus the moment on the back and hips is greater than a conventional. Many of us have found that by making the start position harder the carryover to the main lift is specific to making the start position easier. Again mileage may vary because at this stage things get more and more individual.