Lagging Deadlift and Struggling to Improve

[Ryan Simpson]

I've had a search of the forum and I can seem to find much to answer my question. I've got myself in a bit of a hole with my deadlift progress with it far behind my squat and not improving.

Stats - Height 178cm, BW ~117kg, Waist ~44in, kCal ~2450/day

Lifts as of today
Squat - 155kg
Deadlift - ~120kg
Bench - 87.5kg
Press - 65kg

So I'm nearing the end of my 2nd month (I think) of LP now, I've ran bits of it in the past but things are pretty serious now. The problem I'm facing is that I made a pretty substantial deload of my deadlift because my form was pretty messed up, and now while my squat is still going up (although I'm probably near the end of increasing 3 times a week) it is taking all of my energy so by the time I get to deadlifts I just have nothing to hold my form together and my lower back rounds.

I can't say that I ever really moved to the phase 2 of LP as before having to deload everything was going up and feeling good, as the deadlift got back up to around body weight I added in the power clean last week on the weds. But today I tried pulling 130kg and I just couldn't hold myself rigid, no matter how much I tried.

So based on everything I've read and listened to in the barbell logic podcasts, I'm thinking I'll do a light squat day on a weds and have that as my deadlift day, possibly power clean on mon & fri as its still new to me and light (~40kg last time) eventually dropping one of these for chins.

Is this a sensible move?

[Eric Schexnayder]

My thoughts, for whatever they are worth. I'm a novice myself and I squat less than you do; I've already taken a light day in my routine. I only recently got my deadlift form "figured out" and took it up 40 lbs over the last week by taking the clean out for a little bit and just deadlifting.

Have you gotten your deadlift form issues resolved? You said the squat is still progressing, I assume the other lifts are too?

Regarding the energy portion, what are you doing pre-workout and peri-workout? Also, you're a big guy for your height, so you probably don't want to put on much body fat, but your calorie intake may be somewhat low for the lifts you have been achieving lately. What have your weight and your waistline done during your progression?

If everything is else progressing fine and you are just running out of steam by the time you get to your pulls, I would think a little more caloric intake might help. But it's hard to know for sure unless you're confident it's not a form issue, because obviously that can make the pull seem much harder than it is.

A few weeks ago I was in the same boat. Could squat and press, but had no energy for pulls. I upped my carb intake big time, including drinking lots of Gatorade during my workout. I also recently began drinking coffee before lifting for some caffeine as a CNS stimulant.

Regarding your actual question of whether it's sensible or not, sure it is. At what you're squatting I think a Light Day is totally fine. Have you had to reset yet? For the sake of progress it may be better to wait until you have. If you're just worn out from squatting though, it's probably still fine. In the long run the reduced rate of progress will be negligible.

The Power Clean should help you get your Deadlift numbers up, but maybe just stick with the program and alternate DL/PC. If you want your Deadlift numbers to go up, don't cut the frequency back to only once per week - you need to continue pulling to make progress.

[jonfla]

I've had a search of the forum and I can seem to find much to answer my question. I've got myself in a bit of a hole with my deadlift progress with it far behind my squat and not improving.

Stats - Height 178cm, BW ~117kg, Waist ~44in, kCal ~2450/day

Lifts as of today
Squat - 155kg
Deadlift - ~120kg
Bench - 87.5kg
Press - 65kg

So I'm nearing the end of my 2nd month (I think) of LP now, I've ran bits of it in the past but things are pretty serious now. The problem I'm facing is that I made a pretty substantial deload of my deadlift because my form was pretty messed up, and now while my squat is still going up (although I'm probably near the end of increasing 3 times a week) it is taking all of my energy so by the time I get to deadlifts I just have nothing to hold my form together and my lower back rounds.

I can't say that I ever really moved to the phase 2 of LP as before having to deload everything was going up and feeling good, as the deadlift got back up to around body weight I added in the power clean last week on the weds. But today I tried pulling 130kg and I just couldn't hold myself rigid, no matter how much I tried.

So based on everything I've read and listened to in the barbell logic podcasts, I'm thinking I'll do a light squat day on a weds and have that as my deadlift day, possibly power clean on mon & fri as its still new to me and light (~40kg last time) eventually dropping one of these for chins.

Is this a sensible move?

Deadlifting first on your light squat day makes sense. I would also keep a second, medium deadlift day. 10-15% less than your most recent heavy/pr day for 3x5reps (or something like that). It will help increase your deadlift more than cleans or chins. You could clean on the other day, and you could do chins (or lat pull downs if you're not good at chins) on any two days of the week at the end of your workout.

If you haven't, make sure you post a form check for the deadlift as well.

[Ryan Simpson]

Gents, thanks for the posts.

As for form I did post on technique and it helped for sure and I'd say I'm all good as I'm warming up and before the squats got so intense.

Yes, the rest of my lifts are going up nicely. I mean it's all feeling pretty damn heavy. Perhaps if I really look at myself critically my squat form is getting a bit rough with how heavy it's getting. So I could possibly start this off with a reset as I haven't reset at all yet.

As for pre and peri workout, I work out at about 4.30am pretty much just make and coffee and drink it as I warm-up. So yeah it's not great but it's the only time I can workout and I'm just getting it done. And yeah I'm definitely trying to be in a deficit and shift some of that gut I'm carrying. Haven't been able to weigh myself for a week or so but my weight and waist have been decreasing slowly before that.

Jonfla I like that sound of your suggestion, I was a bit sceptical of only deadlifting once a week.

[Treg]

I will just add, for what it's worth - programming is always an important piece of the puzzle in situations like this one, particularly regarding the deadlift, which is just so hard on recovery. But your deadlifts are lagging so far behind your squats that I suspect form is the central issue. The gym I work out at is full of guys who really ought to be stronger than me but they plateau out on the deadlift at a surprisingly low weight because they're not getting their back fully set (and don't seem to know it), their stance is too wide, the bar's not over midfoot and staying in contact with the legs all the way up and down, the shoulders aren't out in front of the bar enough, the bar is rolling around on the floor between reps, they take 5 extra breaths and say a quick prayer or personal affirmation between each rep, they keep looking up (and to the side!) in the mirrors, and then they attempt to pull off the floor as though they're doing a front squat with the bar in their hands, i.e., initiating the lift by lifting their hips instead of pushing down on the floor.

[Joe Wilson]

I saw your form check with 120kg and it seemed fine, though are you using a hook grip or is that a standard DOH grip? It can be hard to get fully set, pull the slack out of the bar, and maintain extension if your grip is starting to fail at all.

Squatting a bit too high can also artificially push your squat ahead of your deadlift. I would take some video of your squat to verify depth, if you haven't already.

The 2x/wk heavy/medium setup jonfla suggested is a good option if all the technique stuff checks out and adding weight to your top set 2-3x a week is just no longer feasible.