variability in 85% rule

[m_sporkboy]

The usual rule of thumb for trained males is that 5RM is about 85% of 1RM. How much variability do you think there is in that estimate?

Mine is consistently more like 80%, and I've crashed and burned on a couple of template based programs like Baker's GGW as a result (took me a while to figure that out).

Any general programming advice for someone who's proportionally bad at fives?

[Michael Wolf]

There's some individual variation but I don't think I've seen as low as 80% before. Since you say this took you a while to figure out, it sounds like you're confident that it wasn't just a weird fluke day or week and that you ave multiple data points over a reasonably long period of time for multiple lifts that indicate this. Is that the case? Cause if not, I'd hypothesize that maybe you either never got good at, or were out of practice on, grinding out a true 5RM. I don't know anything about your training history so don't be offended, just conjecture from your post. Alternatively, are you especially explosive? It's not an absolute 100% foolproof rule, but we largely find less explosive people have 5RMs much closer to their 1RM, and vice versa. If you're insanely explosive, it's possible you're just really good at all out max efforts, but that your ability to reproduce near max efforts multiple times fades quickly because you're hooked up so well to do max effort stuff.

[m_sporkboy]

Thanks for your reply!

out, it sounds like you're confident that it wasn't just a weird fluke day or week and that you ave multiple data points over a reasonably long period of time for multiple lifts that indicate this. Is that the case?

That's a good question. Probably not enough to really say for really really sure, honestly. More because of missing 1RM data than anything; I only relatively recently learned to grind a realish 1RM. I'm failing at my current program around 80% on both squat and deadlift, and in a way consistent with how I've failed on previous programs, but my 1RM data doesn't go back far enough to say for sure.

I don't know anything about your training history so don't be offended, just conjecture from your post.

Certainly not; I wouldn't be asking if I didn't think you knew more than me

Alternatively, are you especially explosive? It's not an absolute 100% foolproof rule, but we largely find less explosive people have 5RMs much closer to their 1RM, and vice versa. If you're insanely explosive, it's possible you're just really good at all out max efforts, but that your ability to reproduce near max efforts multiple times fades quickly because you're hooked up so well to do max effort stuff.

Well, 20 years ago I was a pretty good jumper. I never measured an SVJ, but I could (barely) grab a basketball rim from a short runup at 5'9", which is maybe 31". Pretty good, but not exceptional.

[Michael Wolf]

Hmmm OK. I'd say more data points might help, and that might also help you/us figure out if you're missing 5 rep sets at 80% because that's actually your 5RM or because of built up fatigue that is still present when doing those sets. The latter can sometimes be an issue when people run early Intermediate type programming for too long, and the "volume day" or equivalent workload just becomes unmanageable due to prolonging weekly increases beyond their useful time frame. It can present in plenty of other cases as well, but we do see that a lot.