Suboptimal training for non-NLP son questions

[Mark Rippetoe]

Really not helpful. Yes, he's weak and it's an issue. No health issue or injury - just an extreme sedentary geek. No, I'm not discussing why or posting the size of his junk on a public forum (really?).

No, he's fat, and it's an issue -- a bigger issue than you think. And you've already posted about him on a public forum, so you get to read what people ask and say. So does he.

I suppose I could drag him into the house, force him on a diet/exercise program, and take him from his friends. At 16, I'm pretty sure that wouldn't work out well.

No, it won't work very well at 16, at all. But the problem didn't start when he was 16, right? You've already fucked this up, so it's going to take an extraordinary step or two to fix it. And it may require saying some uncomfortable things to him, and making him do some things with you instead of his ratfuck buddies who certainly aren't helping the situation. This is kinda like you having to do the last rep of a hard set. Let's see what you've got.

[El Rojo]

No need to get defensive. It's great that you're proud of your son and willing to defend him.

Aren't you controlling at least one of his daily meals, that is, dinner? Moreover, even if you are not there with him, isn't he getting most of his food from the groceries you buy? Doesn't he eat from what you bring to the table?

You can stop buying soda and offer him a protein shake instead. You can feed him spinach, broccoli and carrots instead of pizza. That being in any way harmful or alienating for him is only in your head. It's just good parenting.

[Adam Levine]

Yes, he's a good kid with a problem. I can't really punish him for that, and I can't really push him too hard without risking all the good stuff he has going on right now. His friends are all wrapped up in his schoolwork and extracurriculars (especially robotics, his "team sport"). Between all that stuff, he really doesn't have time for an NLP or going to the gym much, especially with finals approaching right now. That isn't just a load of BS to stay out of the gym, it's real. He's remarkably self-motivated in the academic areas of his life.

I cook dinner, it's healthy, but like most teens, he doesn't eat at home half the time. Lunch is at school, and I can't get my wife to stop buying cold carb-bomb cereals for breakfast.

No full-calorie drinks and minimal amounts of junk food in the house - he's getting his calories mostly elsewhere, and I don't really know where. I suspect some well-meaning parents of friends, which again, is tough for me to control.

I've started the tried-and-true methods for getting to teens - cash. Bribing him for decreasing body fat percentage and/or increasing weight on the bar (his choice to get lean, get strong, or try to do both). If he has no cash, he can't eat out of the home as much, and if he doesn't get in better shape, he won't have much cash. The kid is more than capable of figuring out out that math. I don't terribly like the bribery tactic and would prefer his motivation come from within, but it might work.

The good news is that there is no real health issue - cholesterol, blood sugar is OK. But I know on his current track, that won't last. Once the protective aura of youth ends, the problems will come. I know from experience - I've been down this road.

-->Adam

[Will Morris]

What activities does he enjoy outside of academics? Does he seem to really enjoy any type of physical exercise?

[Adam Levine]

What activities does he enjoy outside of academics? Does he seem to really enjoy any type of physical exercise?

Unfortunately, no. He reads, takes online courses, builds and races drones (the closest thing to physical he gets for entertainment, with about 1/3 the exercise of golf). He's grown to accept going to the gym, but he doesn't enjoy it. I'm hoping that might change when he adds some more weight to the bar and starts being more proud of his progress, but I haven't seen that yet.

-->Adam

[Erik Y]

He’s going to need a mindset change before any productive physical change can happen. Is he aware that physically active university students also do better academically and that exercise improves bloodflow to the brain? Does he realize that being physically stronger won’t just make him look and feel better but will make him more helpful to others when carrying equipment and working on large machines? Can he appreciate the elegant and logical flow of a linear progression that just works for months at a time?

In American high school, it’s easy for strength to be stigmatized by geeky kids. Football players are strong. Jocks are strong. Exercise is boring and uncomfortable. Smart kids are busy with academics and extracurriculars and don’t want to waste time on anything that will take them away from pursuits of the mind just so they can be better at sports. Pizza is delicious and diets don’t work anyway. I understand the mindset because that was my mentality in high school - I was weaker than the other boys, especially for my height, and it bothered me not one iota. It wasn’t until college that I had a change of heart, listening to football players tell me their quantum mechanics homework was easy and failing to carry heavy things for performances and community service functions. When I realized how useless I was out in the real world and how a healthy body would protect my mind, it really opened my eyes.

That summer I went in on a set of weights with a friend (also a strong student in high school who went on to a top college). We just messed around for a while, shouting at each other, playing darts between sets, trying to find the best lifting music. Eventually I got a little more serious, then he did. We started squatting and deadlifting. We got a weight belt. Nerdy friends started making positive comments about our strength. We carried all the heavy furniture when a friend moved house. I had a number of memorable moments just from being a little stronger from a poorly-run LP.

All this is to say that it’s great that he has a dad who knows about NLP and encourages him to strength train, but I’d prioritize the motivation issue. Can you get a friend into the gym with him? And can you find an environment to train that he’ll find fun and relaxing? If he sees his peers pulling 135, he’ll want to do it, too. And eventually, he’ll realize he needs to get his diet in order to make progress. One or two good inside jokes about lifting might be enough to get him under the bar without prompting. I’m sure he and his friends talk about SAT prep at the lunch table, but lifting weights never comes up.

In a year or two, college applications will be over, and he’ll find himself with a lot more free time for the next four years. If he’s got the motivation to go out and get stronger at that point, even if he still can’t squat to depth, then he’ll find the guy in his college robotics program who’s also on the wrestling team and they’ll go hang out in the gym for however long their degrees take. He won’t do the program and he won’t eat right, like most eighteen year-olds, but he’ll be a lot better off for going, and maybe he’ll call you up at some point and ask for squat tips.

[Paulbfast]

He's remarkably self-motivated in the academic areas of his life.

I've started the tried-and-true methods for getting to teens - cash. Bribing him for decreasing body fat percentage and/or increasing weight on the bar (his choice to get lean, get strong, or try to do both).

The good news is that there is no real health issue - cholesterol, blood sugar is OK. But I know on his current track, that won't last. Once the protective aura of youth ends, the problems will come. I know from experience - I've been down this road.

-->Adam

Self motivation is a great thing. But it needs direction. It may be a little late to read now but may be worth reading "Greater Expectations" by William Damon.

Or maybe be the best - YouTube I love at the end what he says about Jerry Rice!

The problem with gaining weight is that it sneaks up on you. It happened to me. He didn't gain it in a day and he won't lose it that fast either. We talk about a journey and that is what you both have in front of you. The problem with bribes is that you have to increase them as time goes by. He has health issues now! They are just not what you expect. To quote "Disuse is Injury".

I started with an empty bar squatting down to eleven of those Step boxes. When I started I was 67 years old. You can do it and so can he. Trust the process and enjoy the journey.

The best thing you can do is model what to do. There are watchers everywhere. Doing deadlifts at the gym a PYT walks up to me shows me a video she just took of them (she commented the form was quite good - a credit to my coach)!

Get a SS coach. They know how to program, they know how to get you where you want. Recently an article was posted about all the time he wasted trying to train without a coach.

He is the one who will be lifting you from the wheelchair to the bed. And until then you have a few years to get ready for the best lift of all - lifting that grandchild and giving them a good hug!

[Adam Levine]

I'm following up on this.

My son's deadlift is up, and he can do an unweighted squat inelegantly, but to-depth and successfully come out of the hole, which he could not do before. He's been training weekly, not NLP, but he's making decent progress with that - he can add 5lb/week to deadlift easily, and in a year that'll basically be in the "problem solved" category.

So, what's the next step in the remedial squat progression? Again, the leg press machine at my gym is useless.

I can have him do a squat variant using plates or dumbbells, but I'm not sure which variant is best. Both push-squats with plates and goblet squats encourage him to have a very high back angle that is dissimilar to a low-bar squat and discourages "hips back". Push squats appear to be easier for him than unweighted squats with the elbow push-out. A bonus is that these squat variants can be done at home, so I may be able to actually get him to do them 3x/week instead of 1x/week.

I've decided that I'm not going to teach him to barbell squat - I'll hire an SSC to do that when I'm confident he has the strength to do a 45lb barbell squat (probably if he can do 30x15 with a squat variant). Any earlier is pointless, as we don't have the equipment for him to do a lighter barbell squat - he'll be learning a skill he can't practice.

-->Adam

[Dillon Spencer]

Full disclosure, I've never coached someone who was unable to squat the empty bar, so take this for what it's worth. If I'm understanding what you mean by push squats, I think goblet squats are a better option. You're right about the back angle being more upright for both, but at least the goblet squat reinforces shoving the knees out, because if you can't get your elbows inside your knees you're not hitting depth. I also find they do a decent job of forcing you to keep a tight core. Pretty sure BBRx has a section on goblet squats and how to progress them. Think it might be in the 70+ chapter. Probably don't want to tell your son that part Not sure which notation you're using for 30x15 (weight x reps or reps x weight), but in either case I'd think the reps are excessive. Depends what equipment you have available to you I guess, but I think focusing on increasing the weight of the dumbbell rather than going for even 15 reps will get him to the bar faster. He should have the upper body strength to hold a 40 lbs dumbbell for say 8 reps, and if he can do that I'd imagine he could squat the bar for 5.

Again, I've never had to do this in practice, so if I'm full of shit I'm happy to be corrected.

[Johnsonville]

I think what you're doing is awesome and he sounds like a good fellow. I'm far from an expert and will probably get shit on for recommending this but maybe a program like pavel's power to the people would suit his busy lifestyle. In case you're unfamiliar it's just 2 sets of 5 with the deadlift and a press variant at submaximal loads five days a week. He could finish this in 20 minutes and be on his way while getting stronger. Also smart guys like him take really well to bjj maybe that's something he would enjoy and would help him lose the weight.