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Thread: When to Switch Out Deadlift

  1. #1
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    Default When to Switch Out Deadlift

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    I'm 5'10" 210, 56 years, and new to lifting. I'm 5 weeks (15 sessions) into SSLP with lifts of 170/90/125/230 for squat/bench/press/deadlift. My weight jumps have dropped down to 5lbs and the press may soon drop to 2.5lbs. Because of my lack of experience with weights I may have moved from 10 to 5 pounds a session to early, but I didn't want to having a failure. I'm in this for the long haul so speed of increase is not critical, constant progress is priority.

    I'm still making the dead lift increases each lifting session and they are becoming a grind. How do I know when to more from dead lifting every session to the next modification? Should I wait till I fail on a lifting session or preemptively switch over to rows and lat pull downs?

  2. #2
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    No don't start failing reps on the DL if possible. Are you still performing the Deadlift double overhand? I tend to see this as the most common reason why guys start to stall in the mid-200s somewhere on the LP. They tend to stay with a double overhand grip and then that becomes the limiting factor. If so you either need to swtich to a hook grip, mixed grip, or straps.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Baker (KSC) View Post
    Are you still performing the Deadlift double overhand?
    I'm still using double overhand and have no had any trouble holding onto the bar. Its the back and hips I'm worried about keeping up, hahaha. My grip strength is pretty good and I don't expect it to become a problem. When it does the hook with be next and then straps when necessary. I'm enjoying the strength I'm gaining in my hands and forearms by hanging onto the bar.

    Back to the original issue, how do I know when to modify the schedule to drop out dead lifting every session?

  4. #4
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    I love deadlifting! I look forward every week to my DL days. So to your question , my experience was as exactly as described by the esteemed Coach Baker. I'm 62, also 5'10" , and 195 lb. I've been doing my NLP for 10 weeks now. Two weeks ago, my DL started stalling, and I couldn't get beyond 255lb. I was using DL double Overhand, so for the hell of it I decided to try a mixed grip. It felt a bit awkward at first, but I noticed I could lift heavier, so I kept with it. As of today, the mixed grip seems natural, and I was able to do 280 work sets and I'm not grinding yet. For the hell of it try the mixed grip. Glad to see us old guys still hittin it !
    Mark

  5. #5
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    Thank you both for your input!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Baker (KSC) View Post
    No don't start failing reps on the DL if possible.
    I guess I should take this to mean I need to swap out my my schedule now. I have not yet failed and I don't want to, but who knows what will happen.

    Time to go back to the books and learn the alternate lifts.

  6. #6
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    Oso,

    It looks like you didn't get a real solid answer to this, and I'm actually wondering the same thing.

    I'm going to take the same tack as you - if the DL starts feeling heavy, I'm adding in the Chins. I might even start off doing chins.

    I figure if I don't know when the "right time" is, the "lesser mistake" is to do it early. - You're still adding weight to the bar on DL, and Chins are a good exercise that use a lot of muscle mass as well, so you aren't really "losing".

    Doing it late means you start regressing and missing reps early in your training, which seems like a big loss to me.

    -->Adam

  7. #7
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    No I did not get even a squishy answer. I thought I asked the question well, but the answers veered off somehow into grip strength which was not even mentioned and not a problem.

    Both the blue book and the programming book use the exact same, oddly nebulous wording, " ... until the freshness of the deadlift has worn off a little and after the quick initial gains established the deadlift well ahead of the squat."

    Both books are written with very precise scientific language and then this one point uses flowery Phrasing like "freshness." I have never though of any of my lifts as fresh and my deadlift progress is tracking at the same rate as my squat. So I don't see how it can move ahead, unless I let the squat stall, which the books say to not stall.

    It just seems odd that the books and now the forum won't answer this simple but important question on the beginning of the program. "How does the lifter know it's time to move the deadlift from every session to every other session."

  8. #8
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    You’re 56; the answer is “sooner rather than later.”

    Specifically? When bar speed starts to slow. When you can’t keep your form together through the set. When it feels AND looks slow. When fatigue carries into your next training session. When your back is fatigued when you squat. For older trainees, the latter becomes more critical.

    For young trainees, going to alternate the PC with the DL can happen pretty much at any time. Usually, however, you want your form on the DL nailed down because the two lifts are related to each other. If your DL set up is off, the PC will have trouble.

    There’s no clear cut answer to this. If you think you’re not recovering from DL every session, then drop the second session. It’s not a big deal to add it back in later if you reduced frequency too early. Just watch the intensity reduction, too.

  9. #9
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    starting strength coach development program
    Satch12879, Thank you very much! Clean, clear and specific.

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