Progress on pressing movements

[Mark Rippetoe]

Then perhaps you can explain this to me because I've never understood this idea. The reason you don't start a trainee at, say, 315 on the squat for 3x5 on NLP is because he can't perform it. If he could, perhaps he could perform 320 in a few days and be much better off than if he didn't perform the 315x5x3. In other words, the stimulus he needs to progress to 320 isn't available to him because he can't perform it yet. If the idea is to become more trained and volume at an appropriate intensity makes you more trained, why wouldn't we perform 15 sets if we can recover from it?

What the hell are you talking about?

[Devyn Stewart]

If a trainee's strength allows him to perform 225x5x3 and no more, it would theoretically be better for him to induce the adaptation that 315x5x3 would give him, but he doesn't have the capacity to perform 315x5x3. This makes obvious sense with intensity, but for reasons I don't understand, we talk about the minimum amount of volume that one can do to make progress rather than the maximal recoverable volume, which seems to me would produce faster progress, assuming volume isn't too quickly as to risk injury. Why?

Sorry if my first example didn't make sense. Hopefully this explains my question a bit better.

[Mark Rippetoe]

You really think that 15 sets of 5 at 225 is going to get you to 315x5x3? Is that what you're saying? Seriously?

[Eric Larousse]

What these RPE guys do is diagnose your program prescription based on age, training history, lifter classification etc. etc. by giving you the optimal amount of volume and exercises based on weak points in the main lifts. What Devyn is talking about is that as you age the amount of volume and other programming variables changes as you age and all of this is decided by your subjective fatigue levels throughout training cycles, the individual training sessions and the RPE of the main lift you are doing that day. Is that what you are getting at Devyn?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Has Devyn lost the ability to communicate without help?

[Devyn Stewart]

You really think that 15 sets of 5 at 225 is going to get you to 315x5x3? Is that what you're saying? Seriously?

No, and that wasn't the argument I was making. 225x5x5 is a greater stimulus than 225x5x3 if they can both be performed, right? If they can both be recovered from by Wednesday, which is better? Extrapolate to the week/month/whatever. That's what I'm talking about.

What these RPE guys do is diagnose your program prescription based on age, training history, lifter classification etc. etc. by giving you the optimal amount of volume and exercises based on weak points in the main lifts. What Devyn is talking about is that as you age the amount of volume and other programming variables changes as you age and all of this is decided by your subjective fatigue levels throughout training cycles, the individual training sessions and the RPE of the main lift you are doing that day. Is that what you are getting at Devyn?

Eh, basically. Most other organizations I know of attempt to do as much as possible while still recovering, whereas SS tends to focus more on doing the least amount possible that will result in PRs as frequently as possible. That's the difference I'm attempting to better understand.

[VivekSaini007]

''No, and that wasn't the argument I was making. 225x5x5 is a greater stimulus than 225x5x3 if they can both be performed, right? If they can both be recovered from by Wednesday, which is better? Extrapolate to the week/month/whatever. That's what I'm talking about.''

Do you think that a LP with 5*5 3x/wk will lead to better strength improvements than the standard SS NLP?

[Devyn Stewart]

''No, and that wasn't the argument I was making. 225x5x5 is a greater stimulus than 225x5x3 if they can both be performed, right? If they can both be recovered from by Wednesday, which is better? Extrapolate to the week/month/whatever. That's what I'm talking about.''

Do you think that a LP with 5*5 3x/wk will lead to better strength improvements than the standard SS NLP?

Probably not because heavy 5x5 is harder to recover from in 2 days, at least for squat.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Most other organizations I know of attempt to do as much as possible while still recovering, whereas SS tends to focus more on doing the least amount possible that will result in PRs as frequently as possible. That's the difference I'm attempting to better understand.

What are you trying to understand? Did you read Reynolds's essay? Do you think we should all spend as much time as possible in the gym? Why, in God's name does this appeal to you? And more importantly, why would it appeal to your clients, the people who pay you to train them? (Little secret: It doesn't, and it hasn't.)

[Erik Y]

Someone made the comment that intensity doesn’t go up on NLP. This certainly hasn’t been my experience or the experience of anyone I’ve trained with. Someone else mentioned that SS programming basically pushes people to near-RM breaking points week after week. This also hasn’t been my experience and seems to be a very persistent opinion outside of this forum for some reason.

What do you think the #1 reason your lifts( and most others)aren't in the same stratosphere as Jordan and Austin even though you implement their practices? Both of those guys never go above 200lbs BW, stay lean year round and are world class level in al 3 lifts.

I was wondering about this the other night when I was reading through some training logs - reexamining my beliefs for the umpteenth time. I was really struck by how lifters at all levels of advancement were only making marginal progress over a year or more, when Austin had just hit another huge DL PR. Austin is on record saying his NLP topped out at 275 and that he is not particularly athletic. He also has done a lot of his lifting during residency, which ought to bring constant fatigue. I would really like to know what is going on here.