Time to add cleans (rows)?

[crop9]

Group,

I have just finished my 7th session and was looking to gain some insight on whether I should start to add the power cleans now.

Just to give a quick background: I am 35, 5'10 311 lbs (down from 315 when I first began), and come from an office job with a fairly sedentary lifestyle up until finding Starting Strength.

My starting weights -- all in pounds -- were:

Squat: 145
Bench: 135
Press: 75
DL: 185

After initially adding 10 lbs to squat and DL, I lowered the squat to 5 each session to ensure a gradual progression. All lifts are now +5 each time with the exception of DL which is still +10 (and it doesn't seem to be slowing although the weight is definitely getting heavy).

Today's weights were:

Squat: 195
Bench: 155
DL: 245

My question is: Is now the appropriate time to add power cleans?

The only issue I have with adding them is I am not sure I can do them correctly and I work out at 3:30 am (it is either then, or never as I commute 1.5 hours each way to work and I have 4 kids and a wife). In the interim would it be wiser to just add the row with the intention of adding the cleans when I can get with a coach/training partner to establish a correct form for the clean?


Any input would be appreciated!

[Sean Plant]

If you’re confident you can clean correctly I would clean. But if you need input from a coach to perform one correctly, it may be a waste of time doing them until you can get a coach to help you.

Ultimately it’s up to you which one you do. I think the general rule is if you can clean do them, if you genuinely can’t or are over a certain age, do rows instead.

[Satch12879]

What does your deadlift actually look like?

[crop9]

Satch, good question. I believe I have decent form, but I am going to be attempting to record it on Friday.

[Jeff LC]

If you’re confident you can clean correctly I would clean. But if you need input from a coach to perform one correctly, it may be a waste of time doing them until you can get a coach to help you.

Ultimately it’s up to you which one you do. I think the general rule is if you can clean do them, if you genuinely can’t or are over a certain age, do rows instead.

based on my continued failures, I don't believe any novice can possibly be confident that they can clean correctly, without live coaching input.

[Sean Plant]

I think in most cases it’d be difficult to do a textbook clean for every rep you do without a live coach, I agree.

But most injury free people with an average or above vertical can generally learn to do decent enough cleans to get a benefit from doing them. I think if you play sport or require a good level of fitness for your job or other activities you do, they’re worth doing.

[Adam Doyle]

It’s up to you. I’m in a similar circumstance, 35 with 5 kids and having to squeeze in a workout early in the morning before work. I chose to do rows for now because it was much easier to learn and I should be able to get up to a higher weight sooner. And hopefully a higher weight row will eventually help with my deadlift. I found this video very useful from Barbell Logic:

YouTube

I hope to add in some cleans at some point though.

[Mark Rippetoe]

It’s up to you. I’m in a similar circumstance, 35 with 5 kids and having to squeeze in a workout early in the morning before work. I chose to do rows for now because it was much easier to learn and I should be able to get up to a higher weight sooner. And hopefully a higher weight row will eventually help with my deadlift. I found this video very useful from Barbell Logic:

YouTube

I hope to add in some cleans at some point though.

With the exception of the fact that the start position in this video is incorrect, it might be useful. Heavy pulls of any type must be pulled from directly over the mid-foot. A row, in particular, will not touch the belly if it is heavy and forward of the mid-foot. I do them every week, and I know this to be true. You won't be handling enough weight that this will matter right now, but you will discover this for yourself eventually. In your situation, I see no reason to change the program right now. Just take the deadlift on up.

[stef]

Assistance Exercise: The Barbell Row

[Mark Rippetoe]

As an addendum to the video above, the supine grip works just fine if the weight is light, i.e. you're just starting to use the exercise. Experience has shown that as it gets heavy, up towards the 60% recommended in Matt's video, the supine grip can cause proximal bicep tendon irritation, and the grip should be pronated thereafter.