Brachialis & shoulder pain

[Scaldrew]

Looks aight. The bar won't feel "right" for a long time until you get used to the feeling. Lack of comfort is a good indication, as is lack of pain. I can tell you that, if this new position really is the appropriate position, then you won't get any pain in your arm from squatting anymore, not even at higher weights. If this does happen, consider not squeezing the life out of the bar with your hands. That usually helps a lot if the position is fine. I understand your timidty, though, as I had the same feeling of anticipating a relapse after fixing the problem. Hasn't happened since, so I no longer feel nervous about it at all.

[timelinex]

I just wanted to update this thread a little. I haven't moved back to LBBS since HBBS has been progressing great and to be honest I am enjoying pain free lifting.

I saw a PT the other day and after moving my arm around he found a spot where my arm grinds and pops in my shoulder. He said it's most likely a tear in my labrum and that could be the source of why my shoulder is easily irritated. He said in general unless it bothers me nothing needs to be done than to continue strengthening my shoulder to compensate for it and keep it stabilized.

So I got that going for me.

[timelinex]

Sure, your elbows were low in the video, but your arms may have been carrying a lot of the weight if your grip was too wide (just tossing out ideas). This thoracic extension helps get that "meat shelf" really tight so you can bring your grip narrower while also keeping the elbows down.

2) Now, instead of trying to get under the bar by stretching your pecs/brachialis or bending your wrists: Try to pinch your shoulder blades back and down, just like how you set up for bench press.
You should be getting under the bar by doing this primarily, not by over stretching your pecs/shoulders or raising your elbows too much.
3) Once you get the bar touching your upper back just below the spine of the scapular where it is stable - bring your chest up, like you would while you are setting up for the deadlift. Keep this chest up position and it'll help you maintain thoracic extension under heavy weights.

I think I finally figured out my issue.

You are gonna roll your eyes..........Shoulder flexibility is definitely why this issue started in the first place, but I'm now pretty sure that my issue was primarily exacerbated by my lack of thoracic extension. You guys were DEAD ON. If I reproduced exactly the steps Pramod Reddy told me to do from day 1, I wouldn't have ever had any issues.

I know, I know. Why didn't I just listen to you in the first place? Well my best answer is did, I just did it wrong. I tried fixing my thoracic extension a few times and what would happen is I would puff up my chest and stand super up right. This only made issues ALOT worse. Puffing up my chest actually made my rack weaker and since it made me stand straighter, the bar would actually slide off even easier. I legitimately tried it dozens of different ways and it didn't help. I don't know if the blaring pain I already had in my shoulder just prohibited me from concentrating on doing things right, but I know I tried fixing the thoracic extension and it only made things worse at the time.

I had a post from a few weeks ago about my SSC helping find a more comfortable position an inch or so higher than I was used to. This helped (needed less flexibility) but as I mentioned in that post; I still felt alot of pressure on my arms, it just wasn't painful since I wasn't past my flexibility limit. I was definitely still "carrying" a substantial amount of weight on my hands.

Fast forward to today. I had a day off work and it was a gym off day too. My shoulder is like 95% better by now, so I decided to go to the gym and not leave untill I made this LBBS thing work. I finally go it! Believe it or not, it was actually the high bar that inadvertently taught me the correct technique. I used my "puffed chest, shoulders back" technique when I started high barreing to keep my chest up and it didn't work great there either. I wasn't in pain because the upper traps are so meaty and forgiving, but I knew my upper back wasn't as stable as it should be. Eventually I saw the right youtube that really drove home the fact that I shouldn't actually be puffing the chest, but rather think of it as tucking my shoulder blades as far down as I possibly can (which inadvertently puffs the chest)...... I combined that with another thing that I saw (pushing your arms/elbows into your lats) and VOILA.

Literally like magic. It was the most comfortable LBBS I've ever done. I know it was only 1 day, but I'm very hopeful that this will work simply because I don't see where the pain would come from based on how little pressure my arms felt. There was no more press at 265lb than there was at 135lb. Even with a wide hands over grip, tucking the shoulder blades down made a nice meaty shelf. Pulling my elbows in stabilized everything. Then at that point it felt like the entire weight was being held up by my back and my hands were literally just there to make sure the bar didn't get bumped off. Ive never felt that before.

It was my "off" day so I couldn't kill my recovery too bad by going to heavy. I did most my sets at 135, but I did try going up to 265 (killed at that weight in the past) just to make sure and it still felt GREAT:



My actual squat technique was off a bit as I'm used to High Bar, but I worked on that after with a foam roller:



I really do get why the SSC and others had trouble getting my LBBS working. On video it ALMOST looks the same as my old videos. If you look closely you can see the bar is sitting on a meatier shelf and because of that my arms aren't strained, but it's so subtle. I don't really know what someone could have said to drive the point home any better?

Anyways. I'm really hoping my troubles are over. I appreciate all the advice that you guys gave me to get me here.

[Chris Lippke]

Huzzah! I'm glad you found something that works and that you're able to squat pain free.

[timelinex]

Back again unfortunately.

The good news is that my new technique works for taking most the weight off my arms and my shoulder and brachialis pain has not come back. That's GREAT!

The BAD news is now I seem to have started getting the standard elbow pain a lot of people get. Starts with a golfers elbow I think and then just progresses to my elbow in general hurting . This started happening slowly right away but wasn't a big deal. Pain is still at a 2, so it's not a big deal now either but I know how these things go and want to nip it in the butt this time. Its enough pain to effect my presses afterwards by a little.

Anyone see anything wrong with my current setup? Here's this week's 295lbx4@rpe8 from the bridge.

YouTube

[Chris Lippke]

Back again unfortunately.

The good news is that my new technique works for taking most the weight off my arms and my shoulder and brachialis pain has not come back. That's GREAT!

The BAD news is now I seem to have started getting the standard elbow pain a lot of people get. Starts with a golfers elbow I think and then just progresses to my elbow in general hurting . This started happening slowly right away but wasn't a big deal. Pain is still at a 2, so it's not a big deal now either but I know how these things go and want to nip it in the butt this time. Its enough pain to effect my presses afterwards by a little.

Anyone see anything wrong with my current setup? Here's this week's 295lbx4@rpe8 from the bridge.

YouTube

Hand position:

You might have your hands a little too on top of the bar. I have the bar snug on top of my thenar eminence (the meaty part of the drumstick if your thumb is a chicken leg). It looks like yours might be resting on top of the bar. I don't know if that'd make a difference for your pain, but that's just the way I position the bar. They way you have it (I've done it like that before) can lead to wrist flexion, even if you aren't flexing your wrists for now.

Related (time stamped):
YouTube

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Thoracic tightness:

You're staying tight through the rep, and it looks like your elbows are in a good, neutral height during the descent and ascent. Nice work. However, it looks like you're relaxing your thoracic at the top (when you finish the rep). You'll notice that this (relatively) causes your elbows to jack up a little every time at the top. This may wear your tightness down a little in the later reps, so keep it tight at the top, through the whole set. In other words, if you let it relax between reps, chances are that you won't get it the same tightness in the 5th rep as you would in the 1st. This fatigue can make you jack up your elbows through the rep (I'm guilty of this).

Try to make your position on the left possess the tightness on the right:
difference.jpg

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Also, unrelated, your head is coming up when you're driving up, especially on the last rep of this video. Keep it down (tennis ball tucked under chin) to help stay in your ass.

That's all I got. Keep working and doing your stretches. Hopefully your body will adjust after a while if nothing else.

[timelinex]

Hand position:

You might have your hands a little too on top of the bar. I have the bar snug on top of my thenar eminence (the meaty part of the drumstick if your thumb is a chicken leg). It looks like yours might be resting on top of the bar. I don't know if that'd make a difference for your pain, but that's just the way I position the bar. They way you have it (I've done it like that before) can lead to wrist flexion, even if you aren't flexing your wrists for now.

Related (time stamped):
YouTube

---

Thoracic tightness:

You're staying tight through the rep, and it looks like your elbows are in a good, neutral height during the descent and ascent. Nice work. However, it looks like you're relaxing your thoracic at the top (when you finish the rep). You'll notice that this (relatively) causes your elbows to jack up a little every time at the top. This may wear your tightness down a little in the later reps, so keep it tight at the top, through the whole set. In other words, if you let it relax between reps, chances are that you won't get it the same tightness in the 5th rep as you would in the 1st. This fatigue can make you jack up your elbows through the rep (I'm guilty of this).

Try to make your position on the left possess the tightness on the right:
difference.jpg

---

Also, unrelated, your head is coming up when you're driving up, especially on the last rep of this video. Keep it down (tennis ball tucked under chin) to help stay in your ass.

That's all I got. Keep working and doing your stretches. Hopefully your body will adjust after a while if nothing else.

Chris,

I think I try to make sure my hands aren't on top, but you are right that my hands are higher up than in the video you linked. I think I do that because otherwise my wrists can't get straight. I will experiment.

That thoracic tightness thing at the top has been a thorn in my side since day one. I think the reason I lose the tightness is my body does it on purpose. If I'm standing straight and I have my thoracic tightness all the way back, there is little holding the bar. I think I start feeling the bar rolling down and being held up by my arms then (I THINK thats what it is). It's not a problem as I go down or up because I'm leaning forward during the squat, so I can keep everything tight. I know the alternative I can do is don't stand up all the way at the top and stay tight but leaned over. I think thats wrong too and puts extra moment on the low back during rest up top. Any suggestions?

In the meantime I realized Its a good time to have my assistance squat movements (I'm doing The Bridge right now) done high bar and only the heavy squat day do low bar. It will prevent hitting my arm/elbow 3x a week while I figure this out and with minimal downsides (other than less movement practice).